Are The Eagles Creating Two Offenses? One For Vick & One For Kolb

One of the strengths of Eagles offensive coordinator Marty Mornhinweg’s¬† play calling is his ability to create an offense and call plays which will utilize the strengths of his players.

That’s why we have been talking about the Eagles changing their offense to fit new quarterback, Kevin Kolb.¬† His strength is accuracy and consistency rather than Donovan McNabb’s arm strength and athleticism.

I could see that Kolb needs his experienced teammates in the mix to get the most out of the practices.¬† Kolb likes to throw the ball on time and these young receivers aren’t ready for that yet.

He needs guys in there who know the offense.¬† Numerous times yesterday he would drop and wait for these rookie wideouts and tight ends to get open but unfortunately they weren’t getting open much yesterday.

He pulled the ball down a number of times and scrambled rather than throwing the ball up for grabs.  I give him a lot of credit for having patience with all of the youngsters who are out there trying to learn the offense.

Many NFL experts have made predictions that Michael Vick won’t be a part of the Eagles roster when the season starts because he can’t run the offense like Kolb, but yesterday I saw Mornhinweg calling plays which fit Vick’s strengths, just like he did for McNabb.

I saw the lefthanded Vick bootlegging to his left and throwing ball to a crossing tight end, then sprinting out to his left and hitting a wide receiver on an out route.

Those plays aren’t necessarily staples of the west coast offense but Steve Young, who was lefthanded and also a great athlete like Vick, had a great deal of success running those plays.

I think Young was the guy who Andy Reid and Mornhinweg were thinking about when they decided to sign Vick.  Yes, you remember Young started out in the USFL, then went to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and fell on his face.

Like Vick he was given up as a disastrous failure but Hall of Fame San Francisco 49ers head coach Bill Walsh signed him and let his offensive coordinator Mike Holmgren and quarterback coach Mornhinweg groom him for a few years until he developed into being a Hall Of Fame quarterback.

It seems to me that Mornhinweg is creating two offenses, one for Kolb and one for Vick.¬† They’re going to have Kolb going one, two, three and the ball is out on shorter routes, but Vick is going to be given the opportunity to create and throw the ball deep in much the same way that McNabb did.

Last year Kolb was backing up McNabb even though they ran their strengths are different and Mornhinweg called different plays for them.  Why should Vick be able to back up for Kolb if Kolb could backup for McNabb?

I think Vick is going to be the backup quarterback on this football team this year and I think the Eagles coaching staff believe they can win with Kolb or Vick.

56 thoughts on “Are The Eagles Creating Two Offenses? One For Vick & One For Kolb

  1. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit to see Vick play a lot more as a QB making passes than last year. Not only because he’ll be in better shape but because of the difference he gives you with his arm and athleticism. I don’t think I’ll agree with it, but fans will be calling for Vick sometime during the season. Even if Kolb doesn’t play very bad, but is just doing ok, a lot of fans will want Vick because they know the guy can make plays. With him on the field, the offense would be more explosive. With Kolb, more consistent so I expect to see a good mixture of both. I mean Vick, chucked the ball 40 yards to Maclin last year while falling backwards with a tackler all over him. I honestly believe a lot of fans believe in Vick more than Kolb but they can’t get past the dog fighting stuff so they’re jaded towards the thought of him playing QB. Anyhow, I hope Reid and Marty use both of their strengths to bring in the wins.

  2. This wouldn’t be a surprise, you should always play to the strengths of the players. The Birds could do a lot worse then going into the season with Vick as the back up. Although he’s going to be a playing back up 8 to 10 plays a game.

  3. I agree with Scorp,
    How about letting Vick run a complete series at QB each half while Kolb watches from the sidelines to see how the opposing team in scheming defensivley.. Vick needs to get 12-15 plays a game to utilize his talents and big-play abililty.. Imagine other teams defenses and coaches having to spend preparation during practice week on Vick as well the “Kolb Offense”. If they don’t do this, I think they
    are wasting a opportunity of taking advantage of having someone as Athletic as Vick to make plays.
    all the while taking a little pressure off of Kolb and maintaing a good vibe in the “locker room”

  4. If our offensive line hasn’t improved from last season, we could see more of Vick than anticipated.

  5. I agree Paulman. I would like to see him run a couple series and then a few redzone and/or short yardage plays here and there. When you only put him in there one play at a time, you let the other team off the hook because they can probably make one good defensive stand against him but let them try to do to for several plays in a row. That’s a nightmare to handle with Jackson, Maclin, Celek and Avant. So while you’re worrying about Jackson going deep, you turn around and Vick is running towards you on a 30 yard gain. I for one would love to see a lot of Vick. Not the starter, just on the field to make plays. Take advantage of what you have. This way we won’t see Kolb throwing the ball 35 times a game. I wouldn’t care as much about throwing it that many times if 10-12 passing plays we Vick and the rest Kolb and run the ball at least 20 times.

  6. I don’t think it would be a good idea to put Kolb on the sideline. It’s very difficult to see a team’s scheme from the sideline. That’s why coordinators are in the booths and why photos are sent down to the field.

  7. Yeah Drummer. Vick would have been better against Dallas last year because he would have got out the pocket. He probably wouldn’t have made a lot of plays with his arm, but he would have kept their front 7 honest. There is a different in the pass rush when he’s on the field. When McNabb and presumably any other pocket passer, the DE rush straight towards the QB. With Vick back their, the widen their stance and hold the corner before they go after him. That buys him time. McNabb couldn’t get that time because they weren’t concerned about him running. Vick will take off. So hopefully in some games when the pressure is getting to Kolb, you bring in Vick for a couple plays to give your o-line a few plays to beat up on their defense and then when Kolb gets back, they are a little tired and can’t rush him like before.

  8. I believe that’s supposed to be a function of the Wildcat. Theoretically, with two passers on the field, the pass rush is supposed be slowed, and the threat of a mobile quarterback is also made available.

    The problem last year was that not many teams played Vick as if he were a passing threat. They treated him as if he were a running back. Perhaps with a year under his belt, Vick’s passing will improve and he’ll be seen as a threat.

  9. I was really excited about the Wildcat a the beginning of last year, although nothing really came of it. I think the layoff had a huge effect on Vick’s game.

    Vick says he feels his athleticism/skills returning. If that’s true, the Wildcat could be quite fruitful.

  10. I hear alot of talk about giving Vick a few complete series here and there however areen’t there NFL regulation that would prevent the Eagles from doing this? I though the #1 Qb could go out for a play and then has to return otherwise the #1 QB couldn’t return to the game. Perhaps I’m just not too clear on the regulation regarding that one…Paul, I know you’re well versed in the rules and regs, can you clear that up for me? Or anyone?

  11. Also, to another point about the Wild Eagle as it’s been called, I’d like to see more of an Option play with either Kolb or Vick as the QB and run it both ways. Or an old “Hook and Lateral” Kolb to Vick, Vick pitch to DJax, Djax to the endzone…..

  12. “fruitful”.. Drummer,
    I know it’s the summer season and leading into Memorial Day Weekend.. but “fruitful”…
    C’Mon Man, This is the Eagles Football wed-site… how about using the word “effective”,”domintating’
    or even “useful” but “fruitful”….
    Not to pick on you Drummer, but does anyone else see a vision of former head Coach “Jim Mora” yelling “fruitful”, “fruitful” in press conference/commercial…. ha ha

  13. well- it is the #3 qb that is the issue. The backup and #1 can change every play if they want to.

    drummer- ignore pauly, no problem fruitiful

  14. Greenfan, thanks for the clarification, your knowledge has proven to be “fruitful”. And if that’s the case it could be a novel idea to utilize 2 talented QB’s every game and make opposing DCords scheme for that type of Offense. And with these 2 QB’s it’s like night and day (and that’s not a racial remark either) because of Kolb’s strengths of accuracy, control, and coolness and Vicks intangibles (sic) arm strength and running ability. Two very opposite QB’s with their own different skill sets used to give opponents nightmares on a weekly basis.

  15. one concern I would have with an alternating QB scheme is that because the 2 qb’s are very different in skills and even in left versus right handedness, it might be confusing for our young recieving corp.

    usually qb’s talk about getting into a rhythm and this can lead to some quick 3 and outs if it isn’t clicking. I like the way that the Dolphins and Browns run the wildcat, but our version last year really provided no boost to the offense.

  16. Paul, I am who I am and offer no apologies. LOL!

    Besides, I’m laid off right now and willing to do anything to exercise the brain. The brain is muscle and susceptible to atrophy.

  17. I am only bustin stones, Drummer,
    I enjoy your posts, what type of work do you do or enjoy doing..

  18. there is a problem with creating two offenses. there is no consistency. i for one would have open the qb position up to competion.with the problems of the offensive line vick is a better fit because of his mobility. also, looking the weapons the eagles have in jackson and maclin they are made more to fit in a spread offense, rather than a short passing game. another issue i see is with vick playing somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 – 15 plays a game. what no one is talking about is what happen if kolb starts the game and the offense stalls, and vick comes in the game in his formation packages and is able to move the ball and put up points. can anyone say vick as starting qb? kolb could go the way of bobby hoying if he struggles to move the team.

  19. I know, Paul.

    I started posting again on GCobb because of guys like you. I enjoy your knowledge and viewpoints. I really like the idea that G allows you to write articles. Nothing like reading something from a real fan. Also, it’s nice to express an opinion or difference of opinion without the name-calling. After all, when it’s all said and done, we’re all Eagles’ fans.

    I’m a paralegal. Took a job here, in DC. Then the firm dissolved a year later. I’m about to return home to Philly in about a month. Packing up the house right now.

  20. yeah Drummer. I agree with your earlier comments about the Wildcat, but I don’t want the gimmick of the Wildcat. That’s ok for a couple plays, but I want to see him get in there purely QB and no wildcat. The problem with 2 QBs on the field is that means there is one less skilled player out there. Forget that. Either line Vick up at QB or Kolb. I don’t want to see both of them on te field too much. Vick isn’t a WR and he isn’t a RB. He’ll get injured very easily by trying to purposely run him in between the tackle. When he’s in the game, there should be bootlegs, playaction and QB options. Every now and then a trick play is fine but stop it with the Wildcat. Vick was more effective with the option plays and rolling him out. And let Kolb be your pocket passer.

  21. green, yeah I agree with the possible confusion issues. It also would have an impact on the o-line as well because with Vick in, the RT is protecting his blindside so he becomes more valuable and critical to a play at that time than when Kolb is in and the LT becomes more critical. This is why they have to work on it in camp and in the preseason. If they work hard enough it should be fine. Also the consistency of how much you bring in Vick will contribute to that. I mean if you definitely bring him in at QB for 12 plays every game then your line and other players get use to it. But if you bring him in 2 times one game, 8 times the next then 1 time after that, it could be a problem.

    There are 2 big reasons why Miami’s wildcat works

    1) They are consistent with it
    2) The guys running the Wildcat are actually RBs who can make throws.

    Vick isn’t a true Wildcat player because he’s not built to run between the tackles. The Wildcat is make to give you an extra blocker in the run game. Vick isn’t a RB. I think Vick good be a very good option QB and as long as the playcalling uses his athleticism, he could definitely make some plays. But if he is as fast and G says he is, we will see the Vick chants sooner than we’d thought.

  22. To Drummer,
    If I lived in a town where Donovan McNabb came in to be the savior of the Franchise, I would probably move too… but on a serious note, good luck with your move and I am sure you will find a good job
    back home in Philly..

  23. Scorp, I couldn’t disagree with you. What I noticed last year was a disruption in the offense. From Andy, I expected a more innovative use of the formation than the one used in Miami. Miami used a running back as a QB and focused on his natural running skills. I expected our QBs to be split on opposites of the field, with the ball being lateraled from one to the other, followed by down-field pass options. Because safeties would have to respect both McNabb and Vick’s scrambling ability, I thought we’d have receivers running wide-open, deep crossing patterns. More often than not, however, we ran the ball.

    From what I’ve read in this article, Scorp, the Eagles’ thinking might be in sync with yours. Vick was ineffective and seemed tentative running between the tackles. So, perhaps they’re trying to get him wide, as an option quarterback.

  24. Yeah drummer, that’s what it looked like they were trying to do towards the end of the season. He would act like he going to run, pull back and throw the ball. That’s what we need from he and rolling outside the pocket to make plays. Enough with him getting flattened by DTs for 2 yards. He’s your backup QB not a RB. We will see but I want to see more of him.

  25. Has this been done in recent football history … I know Randall and jaworski split some time at qb but who esle has done this? Is this Andy way of having a qb competition w/o saying it. I thought the NFL saying was if you have 2 qb u don’t have a true # 1 qb…if Andy believed in kolb why would he take him off the field to split reps… Not just for wildcat but to play qb…if u were a defense who would you rather play against kolb or vick…

  26. even randall and jaws the problem was that there was not one voice in hundle. eventually the coach staff at that time has to settle on the more dynamic player. the issue with kolb is that what happens to him when the o – line does not protect him, can kolb make plays outside the pocket without throwing an interception? something tells me vick will have his time behind center this year.

  27. truth, I fully agree. That was the problem with Andy bringing Vick here in the first place. When it first happened, I thought it was bringing Vick here for life without McNabb. With Vick’s physical ability, I know Andy was thinking he can turn him into a very good QB. But then Kolb, played fairly well when McNabb was injured. So now Kolb looks like the more ready in terms of running the system. Andy should have never brought Vick here because he’s painted himself into a corner where he almost has to use him and brought the entire organization under some very negative attention because of the dogfighting. He has to use him, or this will be another one of those pickups that we will look back on and say “what the hell were they thinking”. Vick is on his last year so it’s not like you can trade him after this season and he clearly wants to start. I think Andy gets to see who is the better QB because he has to play Vick and if Kolb is a dud, he’s only on the books for 1 more year making abour the same amount of money Vick is making this year.

  28. Does anyone think it would be a good idea, if Vick plays beyond expectations this year, to franchise tag him at the end of this year? One one side we’d be able to keep him, on the other we don’t lose him without compensation.

  29. well…if we franchise him we have to pay him the average of the top 5 qb’s in the league. That would be a HUGE number and do you really rate him within the top 5 best qb’s in the league, or even close to that?

  30. I remember the Cowboys years ago used to bring in QB Clint Longley for starter Danny White on occasion because he used to be able to scramble and run around a bit…
    more recently, the Seahawks had used it occasionaly and would bring in the more athletic QB in
    Senaca Wallace for starter M Hassleback when in red-zone,short-yardage situations…
    I also recal the Los angles Rams switching up with the athletic QB James WIlliams for the starter
    Pat Haden back in mid to late 70’s if anyone remembers that …

  31. o god disgusting paulman and drummer spare me r u gonna kiss hey drummer u might as well stay where u r if ud like 2 go to a playoff gm hehehe

  32. Good one Greenfan…
    I tried to clean out my memory back on anything to do with Kordell Stewart..
    How about Don Strock filling in for the aging Bob Greise for the Dolphins…
    Or a young J Hostetler for an agining P Simms…
    Or a John Reeves for the aging Norm Snead onm the Eagles in the early 70’s ..
    I guess the more I think about it… the worse it gets… good grief …ha ha

  33. Greenfan-They could also use a transition tag correct? And I believe the compensation to the player would depend on what level they are tendered at. If they give Vick the highest tender available they’d have to pay him however say they tender him on the 3rd level, would they have to pay him the same value?

  34. In order to use a transition tag Vick would have to accept the offer. And the offer would have to be in the average of the top 10 players at the position or a 20 percent raise according to transition rules. Since Vick would be an unrestricted free agent, if he plays well, there’s no way in hell he accepts a transition offer especially if the birds are still saying Kolb is the starter. The only way to keep him is to franchise him. This is why they needed to trade him this offseason or else he walks for nothing.

  35. Looking at the chart on the link a transition tag would cost over 12 million a year for Vick. And franchise would be over 14 million. The numbers are based on 2008 salaries. So with salaries today higher than they were, I’d expect the actual figures to be slightly higher as well. Another thing is, without a CBA, who knows what to expect when it comes to the franchise and transition tags.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d806a24a3&template=without-video&confirm=true

  36. I think Young was the guy who Andy Reid and Mornhinweg were thinking about when they decided to sign Vick. Quote from G Cobb. This is the most rediculous statement ever. In their wildest dreams
    Vick will never be Steve Young.

  37. See that’s the thing BigE – you are so incredibly simple minded that you are incapable of seeing things other than black and white. Young and Vick are/were both known for being elusive. Both left handed. Yet you can’t get beyond other differences between them to see that.

  38. And just to be sure, I wasn’t talking race, I meant thinking in extremes with no nuance/subltey. Big E only see’s extremes.

  39. LOOK FOLKS….Be real here!!!!!! Vick is a number one pick and proved to be one of the most dynamic players in the NFL before his plotted incarceration. If “G” is correct in his daily assessment of Vick, and he’s showing signs of that pro bowl NFL weapon that single-handedly took the Falcons to the NFC championship……this is a no brainer. Kolb have done nothing in his collegiate career nor showed he can be anywhere near Vicks prime status when Kolb have been pushed into duty. I could care less what someone can show in the film room or running an offense with a “red” shirt. If it doesn’t translate to the field….it’s nothing. This is what we know!!!! If Vick is back to form, he can lead a team with minimal weapons and perform under the big lights. That’s what we know. We don’t know anything about Kolb, and it seems here, some would be willing to have a serviceable QB in Kolb opposed to the dynamics of Vick. Don’t you “andy guys”, start the nonsense of claiming “Vick is not a west coast prototype”….Vick is a proven winner in this league. WINNER! Have won games with a team of less talent and if Andy is anywhere near the QB coach he’s touted to be, his experience would be better served getting the best, and the most experienced quarterback on his team better at reading defenses. The upside is great, and this team will be a playoff contender if Vick’s playmaking ability is back.

  40. one other thing…When is said Kolb did nothing in his college career, I was speaking in comparison to Vick’s college career. Kolb, ran a spread offense and put up big numbers for his team in texas, which got the pass happy Andy excited, but this is not texas, and it’s definately not a spread offense. If Andy tries that with this guy on the NFL level he will get killed. People can say what they want about Mcnabb’s accuracy, but his mobility and his big play arm made defense respect the fact he could strike downfield at anytime. Kolb is timing robot, and if these receivers are pressed the timing will get thrown off.

  41. Song, I agree about the fact that Vick was a very good football player, and seems to be returning to his form – that’s a great thing for all Eagles fans, not to mention Vick himself. As for your broken record ‘he was a number 1 pick!’ – so was Ryan Leaf, Freddie Mitchell (right back atcha), and tons of other busts – DUH. And you keep on referring to how much he has done in the NFL – amazing athleticism yes, much success – no.

  42. Still Song, and I’m quoting you now, “we don’t know anything about Kolb” – and then later “Kolb is a timing robot”. So, you don’t know anything about him, but you know exactly what he is, and what he is limited to. Again, like I was said to Paulman yesterday, nothing against you as a person, but I hope that you can see how critically flawed your argument is. If we know nothing about a guy, then how can you hate him so damn much?

  43. vick can have the franchise tag put on him by the team. if he does or does not accept the offer makes no difference the eagles would control where he would go. keep in with the tag placed on him vick would make somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 million. add that to the money kolb would get and the birds are going to have to make a decision. the question then which qb will have more trade value kolb or vick?

  44. Schiller you must be incredibly drunk most of the time . Being left handed and elusive dosen’t equate to a superbowl and hall of fame player that Young is. You are simple minded because you analysis is based on euphoria rather than reality. You and Andy Reid are probably right handed and fat as hell but I wouldn’t call you NFL coach material. You are personally a wiesel and a snype and attack personally when you have nothing to substantiate your butt licking analysis. Let’s go back to your Booker and Reggie Brown. Gett of your knees and rinse out your mouth.

  45. SCHILLER Being elusive and left handed is just the criteria I would choose to pick a QB. Doesn’t matter that Young
    has 33,000 passing yards 64.3 completion rate and 96.8 passer rating where Vick has 11,591 passing yards,53.7 completion rate and 75.9 passer rating. You beat it off with both hands. and you are not elusive you alkey.

  46. Wow, glad to see you dropped the name calling thing in 2nd grade. And yes, clearly I am the one who is all about the ‘personal attacks’. Neither I nor Garry were arguing that Steve Young and Michael Vick are equals in terms of success or accomplishments in the NFL. The left handed thing, as G pointed out, is huge because of the whole weak/strong side logic of the game and being an elusive QB is also a huge qualifier for the position. You are saying that a major difference in their accomplishments cancels out the key style similarities – that doesn’t make sense.

  47. Schiller you are an idiot and don’t even qualify as a second grader. You are a preschool dropout. Skill and accuracy as in their completion %’s and passer ratings. Any as for name calling, you are a handjob. It’s amazing that you make a statement based on what GCobb saw. Are you saying he is good at running for his life, because the O line may suck. Your half full glass is filled with coolaid. GCobb saw two plays and comes to this conclusion.

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