Can Michael Vick Ever Stay Away From Turnovers Like Eli Manning Does?

On Sunday evening, New York Giants quarterback emerged from the shadows of his brother and showed that he was his own quarterback. He showed that he too could lead a team to a Super Bowl. He showed that with a Super Bowl win under his belt and the chance to make that two, that he was much more accomplished than his brother was 8 years into his career. It took older brother, Peyton, nine years to win his first Super Bowl, a win that solidified his spot in the Hall of Fame. This being Eli’s 8th season, he has a chance to win on the professional sports’ biggest stage for a second time.

Eli fought a long, tough game to be able to get to where he and the Giants are now. Thanks in part to teammate Devin Thomas and 49ers kick returner Kyle Williams, the special teams proved to be where the two teams were set apart in a game that could not be decided in 60 minutes of regulation football.

Manning’s toughness is what won the New York Giants this football game. Even though he took 20 hits, got knocked down 12 times, and was sacked 6 times, Manning didn’t go to the press after the game and complain that somebody wasn’t doing their job.

Our own Michael Vick could learn a thing or two from his fellow NFC East quarterback. However, even after taking those 20 hits, Manning was able to scrape himself off the turf each time and finished the game with an impressive 316 yards on a 55.2 percent completion rate on 58 passing attempts.

While the statistics may not be out-of-this-world, Eli had arguably the best game of his career on Sunday. Against one of the league’s best defenses, Manning was able to take a beating and still deliver 32 completions and two touchdown strikes. After the stunning performance on Sunday, number 10 now has eight touchdowns and just one interception in three postseason games this year and 16 touchdowns to just five interceptions in his 10 career postseason games.

During the NFC Championship game, Manning passed the ball 58 times. Fifty-eight times. This number is the highest in Manning’s career and only the third time he has ever passed the ball more than 50 times. Against the league’s number one rush defense, Manning was forced to carry the load of his team and he was up to the task.

With Patrick Willis, Navorro Bowman, Justin Smith, Ray McDonald, and Aldon Smith combining for six sacks, Manning’s task wasn’t an easy one. With his dirtiest jersey in years, Manning was sacked more times than he had been in 162 weeks, since his week 15 meeting against the Cowboys in the 2008 season when he was sacked eight times.

“He’s got a real sense of toughness about him and it’s demonstrated by the way he plays,” says head coach Tom Coughlin of his quarterback. On the Monday following the game, Manning said that basically he was fine and he had little more than a few “bumps and bruises.”

Manning’s zero turnovers also proved that his maturity and awareness of where defenders are has increased greatly since entering the post season. “We knew we had to come in here and not turn the ball over,” Manning said after the game. He did just that. Just as a bit of perspective, Michael Vick only achieved that feat in two games the entire season, and he missed three full games.

All of this being said, do you think Michael Vick could have led the Philadelphia Eagles to a win had they been matched against the 49ers in the NFC Championship? Vick has only started five playoff games as opposed to Eli’s ten. And while they both have three losses, Eli has seven wins as opposed to Vick’s two. All but one of Manning’s wins has come on the road as an away team or at a neutral site (Super Bowl XLII). On the road in the playoffs, Vick’s record is a sad 1-2, both losses at the hands of the Philadelphia Eagles while the lefthander was a member of the Atlanta Falcons.

To put it simply, after week 17, Eli Manning became a new quarterback. He is one of the most clutch quarterbacks in the game when it comes to playoff games. As much as Eagles fans hate to admit it, after Sunday’s game Eli may have just proved that he is elite.

127 thoughts on “Can Michael Vick Ever Stay Away From Turnovers Like Eli Manning Does?

  1. Speaking of that punt return incident where the ball just barely hit Kyle Williams on the knee for an eventual Giants fumble recovery, can someone please tell me why players call for a fair catch and then hang around the ball? It absolutely boggles my mind why they don’t just run far and wide from the ball if they’re not going to actually catch it. It’s almost like they do it because they’re considering picking it up to run. Please, someone explain this to me because I see this week in and week out and it seems so stupid that it actually starts to piss me off.

  2. These pro Eli articles are a disgrace. The 49ers dropped 3 easy picks Sunday. He played horrible and got lucky just like his superbowl game. When he needed to step up and carry his team this is what he did. 2nd half and ot. 4 punts, then a td from a fumble on the 29. 5 punts then a fg from a fumble on the 25. He didn’t take his offense past the 50!!!! Where is this great game your talking about. Look at what Vick, Brees, and Romo did to this defense and try and tell me that Sheli is a great qb. When will the media be honest about eli. He’s an average qb that has some crazy luck in his career. He’ll keep you in a game but he’ll never take over a game like the elite qbs do. Just cause his last name is Manning doesn’t mean hes an elite qb. Just stop with this nonsense.

  3. all these references to Vick and other quarterbacks, can Vick be like so and so, Vick is a ten year veteran with his established record of play, strengths, weaknesses, his play will not change substantially, the better question is can the eagles win with him, I say no

  4. Ah G, how quickly you forget. 2010 turnover stats. Eli threw 25 picks and lost 5 fumbles in 16 games. That’s a whopping 1.875 turnovers per game. Vick was only intercepted 6 times and lost 3 fumbles in 12 games for an average of 0.75 turnovers per game. So, yes he can.

  5. To BTC
    Punt Returners calling for a Fair Catch will still attempt to Catch the Ball first
    so as not to lose field postions.. If you call fair catch and get out of the way and the ball bounces another 10-15 years, The Offense will start their possesion from where the ball is downed and not where the fair catch was signaled from.. Punt Returners are taught to run up if you have to and catch the ball and do not let it hit the ground where bad bounces like this one can and do occur.. This Williams was not the regular Punt Retuner (Ginn Jr was out) and we’ve seen plenty of gaffes when putting inexperienced Return Guys out on SPecial Teams over the years..

  6. My favourite line from the article.

    “Even though he took 20 hits, got knocked down 12 times, and was sacked 6 times, Manning didn’t go to the press after the game and complain that somebody wasn’t doing their job.”

    This after his pass-crazed coached called 65 passes and 25 runs. Something Reid would have been crucified for as “setting his QB up to fail”

  7. Paulman, yeah, I realize that they try to catch the ball first to avoid bad field position so the ball doesn’t keep going backwards but once the decision was made by Williams to NOT catch the ball and let it bounce, he should have gotten as far away from the ball as possible. He stayed real close to the ball for reasons that nobody will ever know. These types of stupid moves don’t get enough attention in my opinion. I think it’s grounds to cut a player. I just simply don’t get why he would hover around the ball like that after he decided to let it bounce.

  8. Vinnie, some good points but there are some stark differences in Coughlin’s decision to have Eli throw the ball that much versus Andy doing it with Vick. For one, Eli has proven to be an extremely durable QB over the years. Vick gets hurt in what seems like every other game and seems to be limping at some point in just about every game. Second, Eli is a far better passer than Vick and doesn’t turn the ball over nearly as much. So if I’m Tom Coughlin, I have a helluva lot more trust in Eli to throw the ball that much in those circumstances than Andy should with Vick. To top it off, Eli has a much better receiving corp than Vick does.

  9. Hes not elite.. hes had a good year yes but hes not elite… peyton wasnt playing this year so he had no pressure he wasnt in his brothers shadow… imagine if peyton was in the nfc and eli in nfc? Omg peyton would have maybe the same amount of chips as brady if not more..

    But you brought out good points GCOBB.. and i personally feel that though the eagles finished strong that they still would have loss in the wildcard round.. this team just had deficiencies and there would have been no way to mask them come playoff time, yes vick would have turned the ball over because in thes kind of games andy has no balance, he gets way too throw happy and alot of it is bc they fall behind early.. the defense this year adds to my decision bc they really were weak all year long and teams with good TEs would have torched us for our linebackers and safeties struggled not only stopping the run but esp right up the middle of the defense in the passing game.. so there are plenty of dynamics that would influence my decision to say that that Vick would have given the ball over a few times and it would have led to our loss in the wild card round..

  10. The other thing about ELi (and other QBs ahead of Vick) is that they actuallt attempt to do what they’re told by their coaches.

    Contrast Eli’s and Vicks last playoff games:

    Eli asked to throw 65x. He was sacked 6x and scrambled 1x. So he threw the ball 89% of the time he was asked to. This is consistent with his yearly average of doing what he’s told 90% of the time.

    COntrast this with Vick who does what he’s asked only 80% of the time. While I recognize that some of this is due to the oline etc, the fact of the matter is, that at least one out of every 5 passes called the WRs, TE, and Oline start a play they look behind them and Vick isn’t doing what he’s supposed to be doing. This is extremely frustrating for them. If you add in the amount of times (and I can’t get #s on this) thet he’s scrambling around before the throw (Its a substansial portion of the time), I can only imagine how difficult it is to be a WR on this team. And then we can add in the fact that Vick came in 19th in throwing accuracy. Honestly….what % of called passes get completed on this team? Well under 50%

    Standing at line. Ball about to be snapped…what are the odds that the play called will actually happen? Well, guaranteed its less then 80%…and when we add in broken plays I would suggest its about 60% on this Eagles’ team. What is the % chance it will succeed as called? Less than 50% How can you coach that? How can you play that if you’re a WR?

    OK, I’m supposed to run a quick hook…..turn around and….oh he’s on the other side of the field.
    OK. Slant. Here we go….oh he’s scrambling
    OK. Fly route. Go……..huff and puff….oh its over my head…..
    OK. Deep in. Ok scrambling again…come back to the ball….wait, he’s now scrambling to the other side….I’ll block…oh wait he’s coming back!…..

  11. Great move dumping a QB (5) that rarely turned the ball over & won a ton of playoff games for this Guy (7). We’re waaaay better off!!!!! Wow, I’m embarassed to be an Eagles fan of a team who was dumb enough to think Vick would be the future… Get ready fans, we’re one season ending injury away from a trainwreck… And no one has the nerve to report or state that moving Kolb or McNabb over Vick was a mistake… RUN THE DARN BALL!!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!

  12. Come on G seriously… Could Michael Vick have won that game, HELL YEAH he could have, even with 2 INT’s. How about that… Come on man let’s be honest, the 49ers are in the SB if not for 2 crucial Special Teams mistakes. Knee Gate and Fumble Gate, other than that they were going to take an L…. I caught that reference in the article to McNabb too, wow… really. Is that what we have come to. I don’t know the ages of this group of readers, but why is JAWS revered in Philly, even though his one SuperBowl appearance gave numbers like 18/38 1TD 3INTs 291yds, 27-10 Loss. But McNabb’s one that he took the team to, it was HIS fault and HIS alone. I guess misery really does love company. And for the record, the Great Eli Manning threw 25 INTs just last year. Not to knock him though, he does come up big in big playoff games… I’m not going to beat a dead horse with all the Vick nonsense…he’s here again this year, you can support YOUR QB or you can root against him, you choose Eagles fans. But if you find yourself rooting against him, i think you might want to question your loyalty to the Team.

  13. ChuckRob – some outstanding points man – outstanding.

    On the punt return – once a returner (or any person) on the recieving team signals either a valid or invalid fair catch signal, the return team can not advance the ball. The only reason anyone from the receiving team should be anywhere near the ball is that once it hits the ground and starts to roll, the ball is spotted where is is either 1) Dwoned by the Kicking team 2) recovered by the recieving team or 3) stops moving and it is clear neither team is going to down it (the ref blows it dead)

    At all levels, the players are usually given a code word (fire, scramble ) something that suignals the return players to stop blocking and get clear –

    why do pro players still want to hang out near the ball? Who knows – be on TV more –

    in that case – P-man I think is right it looks like he was trying to come up and field it and it bounced right into him –

    Interesting note on the fumble/no fumble late in the game – the refs nailed the call – as a ref – if a runner has been awarded a forward progress spot – the runner NEVER loses that forward progress spot unless he breaks free and you re-establish a new spot (think Vick being grabbed and spun (there is a spot) – but then he breaks away and runs back 10 yards on his own (new spot). The runner was clearly in the grasp of two tacklers being driven backwards (and he ended up going down) – so the forward progress spot was awarded – that is where he is entitled to the ball – you hear all kinds of ‘it came out before the whistle blew’ nonsense, but the reality is when the actual whistle is blown has nothing to do with when the down is over (unless it is inadvertant and thats a bad thing) – the ball is down by rule and the whistle is to let all others know the ball is dead by rule – so there is always a delay = but once the runner was wrapped up and being driven backwards and tackled, the play was over by rule – it doens’t matter if the runner is still fighting – or struggling – interesting ‘football’ play – I think the Peralta guy on Fox explained it very well – kind of like a ‘Tuck Rule’ play

  14. This article sounds like straight jockriding. If I remember correctly wasn’t manning a turnover machine last year? and Vick wasnt.

  15. Last year, After the monday night game with washington, people were talking about Vick as a league MVP.

    Now he is a supposed to be a bum.

    How quickly we forget how pathetic the protection was that he had.

    Going back to the Green Bay Playoff game that started with Vick Getting blindsided on the first play. 2 weeks to prepare and you get your QB blindsided on the 1st play. Fast foward to the preseason after the playoff loss and the man is being told to stay in the pocket and is getting crushed.

    There is no comparison to Andy passing 65 times to Coughlin passing 65 times. As the writer stated. It was only the 3rd time in the man’s career that he had pass more than 50 times.

    When you have a coach who has no patience for the running game, the play action fake means nothing. When you have a coach who can’t coach a QB and his sorry WRs to recognize a blitz and turn their block heads and look for the ball, then you have a coach who gets his QB killed.

    The Eagles Run Game Consist of…

    The Eagles run the same stretch play.

    The same fake up the middle, reverse to desean play.

    The same shuffle pass on the goal line play.

    There. Oh, left one out. The “no push up the middle” running play that always fails on 3rd and 1.

    Predictable Andy Reid’s play calling has been saved in the past with a Running Donavan McNabb. When McNabb stopped running, he got a younger runner to take McNabbs place.

    Kicked “deer in the headlights” Kolb to the curb. Added another mobile QB in Vince Young.

    If playing like Eli, Brees or Brady is so great, why does Andy keep getting mobile QBs.

    The Draft is full of statue Quarterbacks. The NFL has 32 clipboard holders and most of the are not mobile. Andy could get one (Kafta) and start him if he wanted to. One look at Kolb getting killed and the trade was already made in Andy’s mind. He was just waiting for things to unfold.

    Eli is not an Elite QB. He is a good QB who has a great set of WRs. And he has a coach who believes in the running game.

    The 49ers WRs were not getting any separation. Only the TE was getting separation. They should have kept running Alex Smith, until the Giants had to account for it, and take a player out of coverage. Smith is fast and could have killed the Giants with the treat of running. Then take off and stop and throw it down field.

    Eli did nothing great to win the game. The 49ers gave him the ball over and over again and he could not put the game away. Even Aikman commented on getting only a few chances then realized both QBs were getting plenty of chances to win the game and it still went to overtime.

    Vick has a strong arm and unmatched running ability for a QB. This type of QB would be unstoppable if the play calling is better.

    As great as Tony Dorsett was, he was only about 180 pounds. So the cowboys only gave him about 20 touches a game. He always appeared fresh and could break it at any time in the game.

    To many games went by when Brent Celek or the TE in general did not get enough catches. Why??? Because of our sorry offensive line he was being held in to block. Because we could not pick up a blitz, he was being held in to block.

    Stop going for the home run ball to desean all the time and mix it up, and you could not stop all the weapons on the Eagles offense. Impatient Andy’s sorry predictable play calling is as much to blame for the Eagles offense sputtering as anything else.

    You have to coach to the talent you have. Vick is a match-up nightmare to almost any linebacker, so teams started sending in more mobile safetys and cornerbacks to blitz him. That means I should have a match up advantage in the secondary if one of your best cover guys is blitzing the QB.

    Desean is no where near a number 1 WR. He is gimmick guy. Put him in the slot and he causes all kinds of problems. Use Maclin as number 1 and Avant and Riley as your possession guys.

    Limit Deseans touches as well as the times that Vick is exposed to getting hit.

    When the Eagles blitze was ferocious, many teams simply started going with 3 step drops and quick release passes. As well as draws and screens. This kept the QB safe and upright.

    Dallas blew us out 2 games in a row using this strategy. Wonder why Andy never adopted it for Vick, instead of Bombs Away.

    Take what the defense gives you. It’s more that a cliche, it’s good coaching sense.

    The Patriots began the game running the ball against the Eagles. All along knowing that the were going to open it up and go nuts passing the ball. But they stayed patient and made the Eagles respect the run. Then play actioned the eagles. Then kept them off balance the rest of the game.

    Took their heart.

    A team of punks on defense lead by a moron coordinator.

    They need a McNasty at linebacker. And a head hunter in the secondary. You should always be “pissing in your pants” scared to go over the middle, when you play the Eagles.

    Can you say Andre “Dirty” Waters? Ah the good old days. Reggie White and the QB flop. He did’nt sack the QB he flopped on him and tried to separte his shoulder.

    Brandy has a sore shoulder. I would have my 3rd string linebacker knock him into the Victoria Secret runway show. Personal foul. Who cares. He could sit with his wife for the rest of the game.

    Any way. Andy Reid is a bum. His BYU experiment failed. His shortcut style of football does not work in the Championship world. His boney WRs (pinkston and desean) eventually disappear. His undersized defense evenually gets trampled. Steamrolled.

    He claims it’s his fault for not putting the players in a better position to win, but keeps comming back to coach the team again. If you are admitting that you are the problem, then the solution is to get rid of you.

  16. Some NFL News

    Raiders hire Dennis Allen (Former DC for the Broncos who interviewed for the EAgles DC Postion last year.)

    Tampa Bay spurned by Oregon’s HC Kelly invites former Packer HC Mike SHerman for a 2nd INterview, I expect him to get the job and be nemaed as the next HC by the weekend

    Indy Colts are interviewing 49ers Special Teams Coach Brad Seely who was Special teams Coach for the Eagles a few years back.. Seely is well-respected as HC material and would be reunited with new GM Grigson.
    This move probably means that Coach MM will remain with the Eagles.

  17. the only problem with that interpretation Navy is the exact same thing happened the week before….though this time the fumble was awarded.

    Ryan Grant carried ball to the 45 and was wrapped up at the 45. During the ensuing wrestling match he was pushed backwards (at least to the 44) and during this action he was stripped. Ball went to the Giants.

    Seems like the Giants benefitted from this same call both ways!

  18. Ummm G Cobb, Vick has already done it!! Too many of you have short term memories or selective memories…How many INT’s did Eli throw last season? more in one season than Vick ever has! Eli had a down year last season, as Vick had a down year this season…Turnovers played a major role in what happened with the Eagles this season, no did turnovers with the Giants last season..and with all of that said, the Great Eli didnt wrap up a playoff bid until the very last week of the season…Why? maybe because the defense started coming around…some of you cats just dont get that football is a team sport, if Giants D had not stepped up and been playing at their current level, do you beleive they would be going to the SB behind Eli’s arm alone?

    Yojoe, are you that dumb? I was a bigger supporter for McNabb over Vick and was upset when McNabb was traded…But to see what has happened with McNabb since leaving the Eagles….? if you truly believe the Eagles are better off with McNabb over Vick I’m embarrassed for you!

  19. Swirling Rumors going on down at Senior Week in Mobile….

    Eagles Trade QB M Vick to the Miami Dolphins for Starting OLB Koa Misi and their 2nd Round Draft Pick in 2012 and 2nd Round Draft Pick in 2013

    Eagles then Sign free-Agent Peyton Manning to reunite with OL Coach H Mudd and signs a 2 year Deal to not only bring a Championship to PHilly but to outplay his Brother Eli twice a Season and to keep Eli from making the Playoffs.

  20. Vinnie – went and looked at the film of the fumble (Grant) – to me – clearly different plays – GRant cathces the pass – moving forward, making plays – going down going forward (vice being hit and stood up and driven back) and gets stripped as he is going down – just to make sure we are talking about the fumble where Grant gets talked after a pass and the Giants pick it up and take it down to the 5 yard line – yeah – the slow motion he is still diving forward (no progress spot)

    was that the play?

  21. All Realtalk…knew someone was going to write what you did….

    The thing to look at is improvement. Eli has been on a constant and consistent curve upwards. Vick is stagnant – improving in some areas….

    Here are Eli’s % ints thrown through his career……
    4.6, 3.1, 3.4, 3.8, 2.1, 2.8, 4.6, 2.7. From 4 to 3 to 2. Yes, the 2010 number is an outlier, but overall the slope is trending down

    Here’s Vick
    2.7, 1.9, 3, 3.7, 3.4, 3.4, 1.6, 3.3 From 2 to 3 to 3 to 3 to….the slopeis trrending nowhere (actually up from the start of his career). The one outlier represents only the first half of 2010…over the second half he was rolling with his regular 3.5%) So side from the first half of 2010, the guy has been the exact same for the past 5 years. No improvement.

    The same can be said for all the other metrics.

    Eli 6, 26, 24, 24, 23, 21, 27, 31, 29….trending up!

    Vick 2, 16, 4, 14, 15, 20, 21, 18….trending….well….up I guess…from 16 to 18 Hourah!!

    Eli 1000, 3762, 3244, 3336, 3238, 4021, 4002, 4933….up up up

    Vick 785, 2936, 585, 2313, 2412, 2474, 3018, 3303…trending up but at a much slower slope. all the way up to 3000 yards….fantastic!

    Comp %
    Eli 48%, 52%, 57, 56, 60, 62, 62, 61…trending up….from 48 to 60+

    Vick 44, 54, 50, 56, 55, 52, 46, 62, 59. Again improvement, but not as steep or consistent as Eli

    Face it man. (And I hate to say that Eli is not a very good – maybe great QB. WIth that big bucket on his head he looks and seems like a hokey putz. I never thought after his first 3 years he would amount to anything…but here he is)

    In all cases Eli has improved as a QB as a much faster rate than Vick. I don’t know how much longer you want to wait till Vick hists 62%, 35tds and 15 ints. At his current pace it should hapen around 2023.

  22. BSM….you wrote:

    “There is no comparison to Andy passing 65 times to Coughlin passing 65 times. As the writer stated. It was only the 3rd time in the man’s career that he had pass more than 50 times. ”

    DO you know how many times Vick has had 50 pass attempts under Reid? Could you find that out for me, or should I just tell you……0.

    Now….if you consider “called passes” instead of attempts, then the numbers change a bit.

    I the last 2 years, Eli has been asked to pass more than 50x on 3 occasions. On 2 occasions the Giants called 49 passes. Over the same time period Vick has been asked to pass over 50 times…..wait for it…….3 times. The exact same as Eli.

    Gee that must be a downer for you eh? Not exactly “there is no comparison….” ..when….it is exactly the same comparison.

    As for, “ick has a strong arm and unmatched running ability for a QB. This type of QB would be unstoppable if the play calling is better. ” Then explain how Tarkenton, and Cunningham, and Vick always get stopped?

    Navy. I’m pretty sure it was that play. Grant was going backwards when the ball came out…..I don’t see how the plaare different. But on another note. My only concern about the call is that I’ve seen that play been ruled a fumble a thousand times before and was suprised how quickly that whistle blew Sunday.

  23. Vinnietheloss
    Vick wasnt doing what he was supposed to do? what kind of bull is that.
    Oh he was just supposed to stand in and take a sack.

  24. Vinnie “The thing to look at is improvement. Eli has been on a constant and consistent curve upwards”
    how is career high in INT’s last season an consistent improvement..the above comment you posted makes no sense…Ok so Eli threw for 4000 plus yards last season and completed 62% of his passes based on your stats, but threw a career high INT’s…Completion percentage really doesn’t mean a thing…
    Also Shady, had how many TD’s this season? probably twice as much as the Giants RB’s combined….too much emphasis is put on QB TD’s…in my book a TD is TD regardless of who scores…its 7 points for the team…
    your comparison also doesnt take in account that Vick was out of football for two seasons…Realistically thinking, wouldn’t you expect a player who was out of the league to have his bumps and bruises upon return.? I expect this past season, was an off year for Vick and expect a much better season in 2012…

    I’m not going to argue with you about this, as I know your stance and we all know that Vick could throw for 400 yards and 8TD’s in one game and you wouldnt be impressed…

  25. Its an outlier dumbass. Just like Vick’s low % was an outlier for him last year.

    If you can’t look at the overlying trend in regards to their interception %age, and see that one is improving and the other is staying the same, then I can’t help you.
    (of course you can see the trend, but you’re willfully ignoring it because to admit the truth would mean the Ron Mexico poster would have to come down and that might change the whole Newport News tough guy image you got going in your bedroom)

    Man you’re the king of doubletalk.

    Vick throws the ball too much which is bad (though untrue) but its because of Shady’s running that VIck’s passing numbers are low. Vick is throwing too much, but Shady’s running is taking away Vicks passing opportunities. Got it.

    Of course this leads to another common, though confusing, arguement that is made on here all the time which goes….

    “Vick’s passing numbers are shit because Reid is an idiot who calls too many passes”.
    Good times. now just imagine if Vick actually did throw the ball as much as his quaterbacking comrades…..

  26. RealTalk, you can’t pick out one stat, INTs, to determine whether or not Eli is improving every year. Eli is clearly improving every year; as much as I hate to admit it. I think most would agree that Michael Vick took multiples steps back this year compared to last.

  27. I would still take Vick over Eli. Vick can at least make something happen when rushed…..Eli sees a pass rush and either takes the sack or throws it up to the high heavens.

  28. I would still take Vick over Eli too but one thing i admire that eli and peyton and rodgers and brady can do is do a superb job of identifying blitzes and coverages.. teams are hesitent to blitz these guys the way they blitz Mike Vick bc there all very good at identifying what is happening and will make you pay… Vick still struggles with these things esp coverages, hes gotten much better against the blitz but not to the point where teams wont try to bring heat every down…

  29. I forgot to mention, Drew Brees who is one of the very best in the league against the blitz and can literally decapitate your defense if you dont get to him…

  30. Of course you would take Vick over Eli Birdo. You and Realtalk both. Throw Songs, Chuckrob and BSM in there and the 5 of you could have a nice little “We love Vick!” sleepover party. You could all bring your Vick bobbleheads, dress in your Vicky PJs (with the feet!), and spend all night up giggling and ranking his bestest most amazingiest ever scrambles. Isn’t he dreamy?

    Vick over Eli. LOL (And I am not a little Eli fan – it does seem that he just chucks it up. He’s one of the most awkward looking QBs I’ve ever seen – and that giant bucket of his doesn’t help – but it isn’t just luck. He knows what he’s doing)

    Another question….why (for you guys) is Reid wrong with his decisions about…well…about everything (from DC, to playcalling, to the LBs, to the DBs, to drafting the fireman….to everything) He’s an idiot at everything, and his decisons are incorrect on everything….except his choice of QB?? That one he got right. He made the right choice there.

  31. I would not still take Vick. Yeah, he can make something happen for highlight reals… but what he cannot make happen is a football team win tough games because of discipline and smart football.

    Making something happen doesn’t win superbowls. It never has.

  32. Give me efficiency,ball security and good clock management any day over the big flashy play here and there and reckless play..

  33. btc, in other words he will take the top off your defense. I gotta talk like a preschooler on here i see lol.. study your abc’s btc haha crack myself up lol..

  34. Haha, I’m just messing with you Jon. Use of the term “literally” doesn’t really work the way you used it but I obviously got your point.

    Paulman, amen brother.

  35. Paul i agree, we need him to be less of a dare devil.. we dont need that every single down, we need a qb that will keep the drive going and not turn the ball over, pretty much a game manager… sometimes his natural ability gets the best of him and he goes back to the highlight reel vick and we dont need that all the time… you see the two qbs in the sb right now, two of the most unathletic guys in the league yet the can manger a game and take control of it.. thats what we need from vick

  36. btc haha i know you did bro.. just busting ya chops2.. and i wrote literally for emphasis.. these guys are the real deal minus eli, he played good one year, the rest of the years were very average.. and lets not forget all the INTs he has gotten in previous years.. everyone gets so caught up in the moment that they forget what this guys has done in previous years… yes he has a SB, yes he plays well his some big games but lets not get carried away, hes been an INT machine for the majority of his career… and chill on Vick, this is going to be his first off season as the starter of the team, hes going to grow leaps and bounds…

  37. comedian david cross has an amazing bit about incorrect usage of the term ‘literally’ – because when you use it incorrectly, you’re implying the EXACT OPPOSITE of what it means. The gist involves “It was so funny, I litterally crapped my pants”…. dude was like “what did you do with your pants then?”… “no man, I didn’t LITERALLY crap my pants, I literally crapped my pants”.

    But seriously JH, literally doesn’t imply emphasis, it implies the exact definition

  38. Jon and schiller, funny you each make the points you did. I have used the term “literally” just as Jon did and one of my friends busted my balls about it so I did the same to Jon. But schiller is right, people (including myself) never use the term correctly.

  39. it reminds me of when people incorrectly use the term ‘ignorant’ to mean that someone is rude or mean or a jerk. When it really means a lack of knowledge. It’s comically ironic because the misuser is ignorant of the meaning of ignorance.

  40. Schiller, Relax dude, You come on here ready to correct everybody every single day, when do you give your own opinion about the team not based off of others comments? Never. Its not that serious guy chill

  41. And schiller lives on and doesnt have a life, all he does is make remarks off of others comments… arent you like 50 something years old? Dont you have grandchildren to play with? Have you tried knitting? Get a hobby bruh

  42. Hey Paulman, The Colts just hired Chuck Pagano as HC, what happen to your sources that told you MM was a done deal? your making yourself look bad, in case you dont remember saying it, i just so happened to find it and post it for you. I like how you talk about yourself in the third party.

    January 20, 2012 – 1:01 pm

    Paulman was all over it from the get go that Spags would not return to Philly
    Paulman also stated that Coach MM will leave and become HC for the Colts, which I still believe will happen within the next week or so and probably take QB Coach Doug Pedersn and possibly even WR Coach D Culley with him

  43. Jon,

    I know what you literally mean when you say, “and chill on Vick, this is going to be his first off season as the starter of the team, hes going to grow leaps and bounds…”


    Are you really going to roll with the 1st offseason as a starter business? He is literally a 10 year pro, who has literally been on this team for 3 years now. He’s literally been the starter for 2 of them. That’s 2 full seasons as the starter. Again, this isn’t a rookie we’re talking about.

    Would we be saying these things about any other veteran QB who’d been on the roster for 3 years and still ranked 19th in accuracy, 18tds, always hurt, can’t read D……..yada yada….?) No, we wouldn’t. We’d want him shipped outta town. But for some reason….not this guy.

    I am literally getting tired of the calls to “just wait and see what he does next year!”. Because I’ve heard that every single year of his career. Especially from the media. I mean how many times have you heard that Vick is “special” Literally 10000 right? (he’s a special athlete, he’s a special talent, he’s a special….channlling my inner Jamie Dukes there…..) And yet he isn’t. Not even close to “special” – at least as a QB And every year he does the same things and every year people say, “look out for next season!” Its amazing really (and not at all unlike the Brett Favre love affair as he was setting Interception records at the end of the year, but still “Favre being Favre!”)

    If Vick hadn’t been a first overall pick, I can guarantee we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

  44. I already posted this morning that Colts were interviewing others and that MM would be staying in Philly.. .I was hoping he would move on,.,,,
    I can’t be right all the time Andrew..but I am surprised to hear that with all the changing of the Front Office of the Colts and the probability that they will select QB Andrew Luck with their #1 Pick and now that they go out and hire a Defensive Minded Coach with the team basically built for offense is a little unusual…
    This leaves the Tamp Bay Bucs job as the last one open and it appers the Bucs will hire Mike Sherman for that open position…

    The other thing that stinks is that 2 strong Candidates that I had to potentially to replace AR next Season are already gone in Chuck Pagano (Colts) and Dennis Allen (Raiders)….

  45. This is a dumb question and foolish comparison. This argument can be nullified by looking at Vick’s performance against the 49ers vs. Eli’s performance against the 49ers this season. Vick’s performance against the 49ers defense was phenomenal 400+yds passing and another 75 rushing. Individually, Vick destroyed this defense and Eli did just ok. But let’s be real here… Eli throws up ALLOT of prayers hoping that they will somehow get caught and when they don’t Eli is always quick to point the finger. The entire 2007 Super Bowl victory was based on a virtual hail mary pass to David Tyree… not a stick throw a HAIL MARY PASS. Eli deserves props and I like him, but he can’t do what Vick does. All of these comparisons of other QB’s to Vick are stupid and reek of Vick hate. During Vick’s days in Atlanta he was asked to do EVERYTHING and contemplated retirement because the FALCONS SUCKED and he had no help but still SINGLE HANDED GOT THEM 2 PLAYOFF VICTORIES. Eli is in contention for his second SB not because he is Elite, although I will say he is clutch, but because the Giants have had the best pass rush in the league for the last 4 yrs. If the 49ers special teams don’t make two key turnovers, this article is not even written.

    Brenden Peddigre, this article is a FAIL! Here’s a suggestion, write an article that asks the question… how would Eli have done in Philly’s offense this year?

    VinnytheV…. you are a classic Vick hater. Numbers don’t lie, but the do exaggerate and if not put in proper context they mislead. Eli has been in the same system with much of the same players far longer than Vick. You put out stats without including the intangibles of chemistry, familiarity, and the quality of the skilled players Vick has at his disposal as well as game planning by the coaching staff. Go back and watch Vick vs. the 49ers and Eli vs the 49ers and you tell me who is better.

    Give Vick Eli’s defense or the 49ers defense…Give Vick Eli’s running game or the 49ers running game and this article is not written….

    You guys claim to be Eagles fan’s, but I can’t see it.

  46. Paulman, I wouldnt have any problem taking a retread like Gruden, Billick, Cower, They all have a ring and if u listen to them you can tell the’ve come a long way in experience by having to break down films for every game because of the jobs they have,they also learned their short commings from being out of coaching for a while, people can say what they want about taking an up n coming Cord but i’ll take a recharged , energized, experienced HC anyday.

  47. I don’t believe that Lurie or his Front Office would settle on a retread..
    It goes against everything that they believe in, and in a weird sense, that they also failed to make their choice successful.. Lurie & Banner like to think of themselves as “Visionaries and cutting esdge” and I belive they believe that they can go out and hire the next young Assistant Coach who can become the next Andy Reid in their eyes.. ..
    Again, this is how I feel that these guys think… They are arrogant as well. I just don’t see Lurie & Banner as the Typre who are going to admit failure and then go out and hire a Strong Perdonality who is goign to deman authority from Day 1 where Lurie an Banner are going to hand the keys off too, and say, Hey Coach Cowher or Gruden or Dungy, It’s all yours, Just win us a Championship.. I just don’t ever see that happening with this group.

  48. I think , they will begin their Search by December of Next Season and take them thru January to make a decision …

    A few Names on the List I see the Eagles Pursuing after 2012 Season as [ptential rep[lacement for AR

    #1) Chad Chuzinski (O/C of the Panthers)
    #2) Pete Carmichael (O/C of the Saints)
    #3) Brad Seely (S/T Coach of the 49ers)
    #4) Perry Jeweel (D/C of the Giants)
    #5) MIke Pettine (D/C of the Jets)
    #6) MIke Trgovac (LB Coach of the Packers)
    #7) Tom Clements (QB Coach of the Packers– Probably getting a little too old) a are quality Fottball Coaches like Bruce Arians, Vic Fangio

  49. “Things have Changed” Drummer
    Just like Eagles QB Vick was being talked about MVP last Season too…
    12 Months and 20 Games later are an internity in Football and a lot of things can and often do change…. 6 Weeks ago, FAns and Local Media was calling for Giants HC Couglin to be fired, now he’s a Football Genius… Go figure…

  50. Paulman – and Drummer – EXACTLY.


    Why are you so convinced that the Eagles can’t change on a dime – it happens so frequently in the league but you seem to thing that the Eagles are immune to that.

  51. None matters until Reid moves on from our holy sanctuary and takes his demonic revolting ways to another community to just demolish the hope and existence of what us fans come to believe every September eve awakening The devil in green sits on the side line and his wrath will just be felt from the depths of our core to the air we breathe water we drink food we eat Until the day when he walks away our organization will never break free from those demons we see every Sunday through the frigid air up until December The voices will speak and our team will triumph through this abysmal nest we have been settled in for our period of time The marathon will never end until our destiny is reached through the actions and deeds of our next army of eagles

  52. If the Leadership doesn’t change, the final result is very unlikely to change in myy opinion..Coach Ar scheme and WCO was great in early 2000’s, but it’s become stale and predictable and just not plain physical enough..Same issues on short-yardage and Red-zone Offense and Defense and when the Eagles have to continue ot count on QB Sneaks by your franchise QB VIck is not being efficient… Then when VIck is hurt or out, then the Offense bogs down again .. Watch Defense’s next season stack the box versus the EAgles to limit McCoy and make him less effecttive .. then the Eagles will struggle so sustain drives … You take McCoy production the 1st 10 weeks of the Season for the 2011 Season and the Eagle Offense was not very good in my opinion, Now Teams are not going to be playing 2 Deep Safety 15-20 YArds back sinec Vick and D-JAx struggled for most of the Season..
    You watch, next Season Teams are going to dare the Eagles to throw on them deep and to the outside and will be coming in after the backfield of McCoy or VIck if it’s a pass play abdI don’t the ink the PLay-calling and/or the Adjustments can be made quick enough by QB Vick and WR to make those adjustments on the fly in games when it counts… time will tell..

  53. what g cobb? this is eli mannings first year that he was actually good.. i mean hes had other good years but hes always throwing stupid interceptions.. much worse then vick.. i would venture to say eli has the most red zone interceptions in the last 3 years not counting this year….i dont know really how to look at vick yet last year he was amazing.. this year he had 5 tipped interceptions and a lock out.. we’ll know much more next year

  54. This is a dumb question and foolish comparison. This argument can be nullified by looking at Vick’s performance against the 49ers vs. Eli’s performance against the 49ers this season. Vick’s performance against the 49ers defense was phenomenal 400+yds passing and another 75 rushing. Individually, Vick destroyed this defense and Eli did just ok. But let’s be real here… Eli throws up ALLOT of prayers hoping that they will somehow get caught and when they don’t Eli is always quick to point the finger. The entire 2007 Super Bowl victory was based on a virtual hail mary pass to David Tyree… not a stick throw a HAIL MARY PASS. Eli deserves props and I like him, but he can’t do what Vick does. All of these comparisons of other QB’s to Vick are stupid and reek of Vick hate. During Vick’s days in Atlanta he was asked to do EVERYTHING and contemplated retirement because the FALCONS SUCKED and he had no help but still SINGLE HANDED GOT THEM 2 PLAYOFF VICTORIES. Eli is in contention for his second SB not because he is Elite, although I will say he is clutch, but because the Giants have had the best pass rush in the league for the last 4 yrs. If the 49ers special teams don’t make two key turnovers, this article is not even written.
    Brenden Peddigre, this article is a FAIL! Here’s a suggestion, write an article that asks the question… how would Eli have done in Philly’s offense this year?
    VinnytheV…. you are a classic Vick hater. Numbers don’t lie, but the do exaggerate and if not put in proper context they mislead. Eli has been in the same system with much of the same players far longer than Vick. You put out stats without including the intangibles of chemistry, familiarity, and the quality of the skilled players Vick has at his disposal as well as game planning by the coaching staff. Go back and watch Vick vs. the 49ers and Eli vs the 49ers and you tell me who is better.
    Give Vick Eli’s defense or the 49ers defense…Give Vick Eli’s running game or the 49ers running game and this article is not written….
    You guys claim to be Eagles fan’s, but I can’t see it.

  55. Now that the Colts have a new GM (former eagles executive) Ryan grigson who now hired a Defensive minded coach in Chuck Pagano who came from the ravens, they will now have more of a defensive mentality, opposite of what they had when they relied on Peyton as long as they have… They will certainly draft peytons replacement Andrew Luck setting themselves up for the next 12+ years because whatn theyre going to do is center a dominant defense around the kid and may make them instant contenders this upcoming year… Do not let the losing season this yr fool you, they will be a tough tough team this upcoming season..

  56. Vinnie

    You ask me to explain how Tarkenton and Cunningham got stopped because I said Vick’s strong arm and running ability was unstoppable.

    Tarkenton’s arm was no were near the power of Vicks. And He still won 3 NFC championships. He had the same problem the Eagles have. An undersized defensive line. The Raiders and the Dolphins set Superbowl rushing records against the puny Vikings defensive front.

    Cunningham had no offensive coordinator. Unless you count the worst coach in Eagles history, Richie Kotite. However Cunningham should have won a Superbowl with the defense that Buddy Ryan put together. The FogBowl was a freak of nature, that happen to come while Chicago had the lead. As I recall Cunningham had goldtip shoelaces and wanted to be called Rocket Man. It is quite possible he was not as focused or mature (in the film room) as he should have been, come playoff time.

    Now a better comparison to Vick would be left handed fast running QB Steve Young who DID win a Superbowl and was unstoppable. I could also mention John Elway for having a Canon for an arm and being very mobile as well. He also won a superbowl. When???? After he got a RUNNING GAME. Prior to that he lost a couple.

    Does that help you out any Vinnie????

    And please don’t try to compare the Eagles pass/run ration under Reid, to Coughlin.

    As mentioned on Monday Night Football (the Washington game). Andy (too big for punt pass and kick) Reid has the highest pass/run ration of ALL TIME.

    This is the 1st year in recent memory that the Giants have not had a great running game.

    Please. I can’t even believe you went there.

  57. In addition with all the talent he had, Steve Young was considered a Bust while, he played at Tampa Bay.

    When he got traded to a coaching genius, who knew how to better use his talents. He became an Hall of Fame player.

    Elway as well, was considered a player who could not win the big one. Until he got 2,000 yard rusher Terell Davis. The Elway as well cemented his hall of fame career.

    As I originally wrote, the coach has to adapt to the talent he has. No one should be trying to make Vick fit into a mold. He is a rare and unstoppable talent if used properly.

    If Andy Reid ran the West Coast offense the way the originator did (Bill Walsh), then the TE would have pro-bowl numbers like the 49ers pro-bowl TE Russ Francis did. The RB would have 1,000 yards rushing and recieving like Roger Craig did. Passes to the TE and RB are generally short passes that kept drives long. That rests your defense and keeps the opponents defense off balanced.

    Those short passes would also limit the number of hits Vick would take.

    The Strong Safety or linebacker usually covers the TE. If they are up at the line defending the short pass and your running game. Now you go play action and Desean has at least 5 yards of separate. A game of chess is rarely won by Fools Mate. You have to set the opponent up.

    Bill Walsh scripted the first 15 plays simply to see your reaction to them. Then he went to work, now being able to predict your response and responding to it. A far cry from Andy Reid’s ” I have no answer” OPPs. style of coaching.

  58. Vick did his first 5-6 games back in Oct/Nov and then the Turnovers started at the end of the 2010 Season.. (The Int thrown in the endzone versus the Bears in 2010 which was a killer and the sack/fumble to a blitzing CB versus the Vikings in 2010 just before the half which was also a killer and bascially took them out from being a potential #2 Seed)
    I think Teams that have success against VIck decide to rush less Defenders and keep their DE’s out wide to contain Vick in the Pocket more and then drop back more in Pass Coverage to take advantage of Vick’s poor decision making and his habit of holding the ball for too long tying to make the big play when it’s simply not there.. He goes thu his progressions a little slower and longer that what you expect a 9-10 Year veteran to do and therefore, a lot more passes ended up being thrown in tighter coverages to too late and or behind receivers

  59. I actually think teams blitz Vick a lot by sending the house. Given his inability to pick up blitz and read the progression of routes, it forces him into making a stupid decision and throwing the ball into double and sometimes even triple coverage. Also, his propensity to turn the ball over when being sacked is even more grounds for sending the house.

  60. It was bad enough wne Vick was being compared to Little Eli. Now we’re back to the comparisons to Steve young. Mike Vick couldn’t hold Young’s jock.

    Lets go trough the ridiculous excuses above and demolish them one by one.:

    Excuse 1: “Vick’s performance against the 49ers defense was phenomenal 400+yds passing and another 75 rushing.” That was in game 4 of the season when the 49ers were still implementing their defensive schemes. These take a half a year to put in at least (something Eagles fans don’t seem to realize). Over the first 6 games the 49ers gave up big QB performances to Vick, Romo, Stafford….hell even Tavaris was decent with 200 yards and – you guessed it – no turnovers.

    Excuse 2: “During Vick’s days in Atlanta he was asked to do EVERYTHING and contemplated retirement because the FALCONS SUCKED and he had no help but still SINGLE HANDED GOT THEM 2 PLAYOFF VICTORIES.”
    You’re right. They had no running game at all. Never ever heard of Warrick Dunn and TJ Duckett. Who led the league in rushing in 2004 with 1700+ yrds combined. Or Dunn with a 5.4 yrd/carry avg, racking up 3 str8 1100+ yrd seasasons. And pro-bowler Alge Crumpler in his prime at TE. Or Roddy White at WR…anyone wonder why White went from 30 catches in 2006 (with Vick) to 83 catches the following year? Or became a pro0-bowler after Vick? I don’t. Nope. No talent there at all. All Vick!

    Excuse 3: “Eli has been in the same system with much of the same players far longer than Vick. ” Vick has been with Desean, Maclin, Celek and Avant the entire 3 years. Eli has been with Nicks for 3, Manningham for 4 (but didn’t play year 1), Cruz for 1 and Ballard for 1 year. Time with players….advantage Vick.

    Excuse 5: “Go back and watch Vick vs. the 49ers and Eli vs the 49ers and you tell me who is better.” If you want to compare the intensity of a week 4 matchup with that of the NFC championship game, be my guest. YOu’re comparing apples to oranges. The only example we have of Vick in that situation is the playoff game last year, when, with plenty of time left, vick walked up under centre staring at Cooper, mind already made up that he was going to him, and tossing an underthrown ball into the endzone for a pick while both Desean and Maclin stood wide open.

    Excuse 6: “Give Vick Eli’s running game or the 49ers running game and this article is not written….” In the 49ers game the Giants ran 28% of the snaps for 87 yrds in 5 quarters. BTW – the giants had the league’s worst running game this year.

  61. And now for BSM’s ridiculousness:

    “Tarkenton’s arm was no were near the power of Vicks. And He still won 3 NFC championships. He had the same problem the Eagles have. An undersized defensive line. The Raiders and the Dolphins set Superbowl rushing records against the puny Vikings defensive front.”Not a strong arm…he finished his career with a 12.8 yrds/comp avg a little higher than Vick. An undersized D-line? You’re now slagging the Purple people Eaters who sent 2 guys to the Hof. Must have been the defensive line. Couldn’t have been the 6 ints Tark threw in those 3 games.

    “In addition with all the talent he had, Steve Young was considered a Bust while, he played at Tampa Bay.”

    The key is he IMPROVED. he went from
    195 363 53.7 2282 8 13 to
    324 461 70.3 3969 35 10

    While Vick has gone from:
    231 421 54.9 2936 16 8 to
    253 423 59.8 3303 18 14

    One guy improved by leaps and bounds…one guy is basically the same. Now when you take a player and completely change everything around him and the results stay the same. You have to ask yourself…who is the constant? Vick is a constant no matter what changes around him.

    “Those short passes would also limit the number of hits Vick would take.” He’s too short.

    “He is a rare and unstoppable talent if used properly.” So I’ve been hearing for the past decade. If so unstoppable why only 6 playoff games? And 2-4 in those games. Oh….he wasn’t “being used right” Got it. Dan Reeves, Andy Reid, the problem with vick is that no one has yet been able to use him right. Drole.

  62. Im sorry – I have to throw the biggest bullshit flag ever on – have to – has to be thrown – would everyone please go up and read the post by BSM video post on 26 JAN at 8:12 – please read the part where he writes about the Minnesota Vikings – and the Defensive line of the Vikings –

    Tarkenton’s arm was no were near the power of Vicks. And He still won 3 NFC championships. He had the same problem the Eagles have. An undersized defensive line. The Raiders and the Dolphins set Superbowl rushing records against the puny Vikings defensive front.

    An undersized defensive line –

    the 1973 Super Bowl – Miami verse the Vikings – was won by the Dolphns 24-7 – they went up 24-0 and then basically ran the ball the rest of the game – with Larry Csonka going 145 yards on 33 carries

    the Dolphins game plan: The Dolphins’ game plan on offense was to use misdirection, negative-influence traps, and cross-blocking to exploit the Vikings defense’s excellent pursuit.

    The starting D line for the Vikings in that Super Bowl – Carl Eller – Allan PAge, Jim MArshall and Gary Larsen two of those dudes mantioned are HALL OF FAME PLAYERS! All have multiple pro bowls – LArsen was 6-5 260 – Eller was 6-6 250 Page was 6’4 250 MArsahll was 6’4 250
    so the average size of the vikings D Line was a little over 6’4 about 252.5 lbs

    How about the steel curtain – MEan Joe was 6’4 275 LC Greenwood was 6 6 245 Ernie Sims 6 3 260 and Dwight White was 6 4 250 so the Steelers great D Dlines averaged a little over 6 4 and 257 pounds………

    Let us not forget the Doplhins had a couple of outstanding era lineman – Bob Kuechenberg – he was 6’2 250 a hall of fame center named Langer at 6’2 250

    Now Larry CSonka (sort of like the Brando Jacobs of his era ) was 6’3 237

    But bottom line dude – the Dolphins were playing int here third straight SB – had a bunch of All Pro type O Lineman – and they ran traps and misdirections to take advantage of the PURSUIT of the Vikings –

    the size of the D lineman from the Vikings had nothing to do with Tarkengton not winning a Super Bowl –

    just make shit up and hope no one reads it? You can look at the numbers for the Raiders SB of you wish but just pure bullshit on why Tarkengton never won a SB – the Size of the D lineman – hey Bud Grant – your HOF Carl Eller and Allan Page are too damn small – now that sounds like an GCOBB fan talking there

  63. BTC and Vinniethefeces..First I’m not arguing that Eli did not have a better 2011 season than Vick…just so we are all clear….

    But, I can’t pick just one stat? I can’t measure improvement based on INT’s? Firstly I cant pick just one stat “INT”S: when the article clearly asks, CAN VICK stay away from turnovers….last time I checked an INT was a turnover, I’m I incorrect BTC? Vinnie’s response to that was some BS “and the survey says no”…..Fact is in 2010 Vick did!

    ok so lets throw a stat in there that none of you like to give Vick credit for? the stat that he is the career leader amongst QB’s in….rushing? How about 3rd down conversion percentages? regardless if the ball was passed or not… Would you say that Eli threw the long ball more than Vick this or last season? could this possibly impact completion percentage? how about tip balls, Eli is taller than Vick by a good 4 inches and he is known to get his balls tipped as well, so could this have some to do with blocking? Is Eli facing full out blitzes every down like a Vick? you guys want to evaluate performances then do all the homework and get back to me…how about drops are those considered? If I can’t pick one stat, then the only fair way to judge is to look at every major statistic in which directly impacts the outcome of the game…how about considering how many possessions the Eagles had in which Shady broke a 10 – 20+ yard run for a TD? how many times has that happened with a Giants RB this season? if you

    Vinnie I had a feeling you would run your mouth even after I was long gone…you are a Vick hater and that it’s as simple as that! I didnt poke out my chest one bit with my comments, but if you feel the need to get smacked up I live in Jersey, never lived in VA…your opinion on this matter shouldn’t even be considered considering the biases and prejudices you have for the man…

  64. Well…As I was searching answers to Reals questions about who threw the most long passes (I’m pretty sure they’ll be about the same….I came across this pretty interesting tidbit…

    Over his career….passes thrown in: 1st @ 25 2nd Q 34 3rd Q 15 4th Q 19.

    So….59 td passes in the first half….34 in the second half over his career…..interesting as we watched the Birds offense stall in the 2nd half time and time again…..but I guess now not that suprising as Vick has been doing that his entire career.

    You know….Realtalk is right…I am biased against Vick and I freely admit it. I have always thought he’s a bad QB and did not want him to come to the Birds….but now that I’ve actually been spending time on here and really researching the guy….I foind out time and time again that he’s actually worse than I originally thought! Fantastic!

  65. Kinda funny as how all these coaches are getting hired right now like Greg Schiano yet MArty can’t get a sniff at a head coaching job in the NFL…I think people around the league view him as a coordinator ONly, similar to how Wade Phillips and Spags are looked at. I could easily see Reid, Vick, and MArty out of here after the season is over.

    As an Eagles fan, you have to notice what the Colts are doing…their owner is kinda annoying but hey he knows what they have was not good enough to win a championship…he basically cut ties with the GM coaches and prolly will with Manning, who I don’t think will ever play the same if he decides too. The guy gets that its not good enough to be just competitive in this league, 8-8 which is prolly what would have happened if Manning played this year or if they kept the status quo in bringin everybody back. Thats all they would be is competitive not championship bound esp when they have a rising Texans team that has a ridiculous defense and is prolly just a complement WR away from being truly elite. Their going to try to build everything up again and go for it again with a new regime of coaches and players..

    Btw, Maddox7…WTF was that

  66. Hey Guys!!!!

    You have your 3 gallon jugs filled with Green Aid laced with hallucinatory agents?

    Well get your fluoridated water from your taps and fill it to the rim for the proverbial pack of green toxins packaged by bald spud leading into another failed season.

    You’ll hear the regular quotes pulled out of spuds ass normally around March that can actually hypnotize losers into believing something might be different from our usual pathetic off seasons.

    Qoutes like……..

    “It’s very quite around here and usually Andy is tight lipped so the cat is not let out the bag concerning picks.


    Yes, please don’t let anyone know that you have your eye on a 26 year old hockey payer that moonlights as a Canadian fireman.

    Other teams might erase their draft boards and grab him.

    You’ll also hear verbal defecation coming out of the Novacare like…….

    “The Eagles have extra picks which could mean a lot of wheeling and dealing
    in the first couple of rounds”. “Good teams build from the Draft”.


    wheeling and dealing Huh?

    You mean like trading your 1st round pick to a division rival and pick up a garbage QB like Kolb in the the 2nd round who will take 4 years to get on the field while leaving other glaring weaknesses unattended?

    Here’s some wheeling and dealing….How about trading a few picks to move up and pick an undersized DE in Brandon Graham when you could sit pat and get a bigger, stronger prototype 4-3 defensive end in Jason Pierre-Paul.

    Guys, when teams messes up a few times then it’s mistakes.

    But when you strike out consistently on the defensive side of the ball when evaluating talent…It’s incompetence.

    “So Drink up”

    I’ll enjoy the Superbowl this year to see what real championship teams are made of.

    I’ve been an Eagles fan for over 30 years and that’s long enough to know what we are and what we are not.

    We are good enough to compete and we’re not good enough to win it all…that’s what we’ve always been.

    Sorry to say…Cowboys, 49ers, Giants, & Redskins fans told me in the 80’s..Your Eagles will never win a Superbowl.

    They are right.

    Everyone and their mother knew Mcnabb needed receivers in his prime except Andy and the opportunity went by.

    We the fans know Burfict is a game changer but watch what Andy and the accountants do this draft.

    Watch they draft another pathetic player that makes eveyone ask….WHAT?

    and watch the same Green Aid drinkers here paid by the PR team come on and say….”Give en a chance”

    McDougal “Give em a chance”
    Matt McCoy “Give em a chance”
    Sean Considine”Give em a chance”
    Victor Abiamiri “Give em a chance”
    Trevard Lindley “Give em a chance”
    Brodrick Bunkley “Give em a chance”
    Chris Gocong “Give em a chance”
    Stewart Bradley “Give em a chance”
    Bryan Smith “Give em a chance”
    Trevor Laws “Give em a chance”
    Brandon Graham “Give em a chance”
    Nate Allen “Give em a chance”
    Daniel Te’o-Nesheim “Give em a chance”
    Jaiquawn Jarrett “Give em a chance”
    Curtis Marsh “Give em a chance”
    Casey Matthews “Give em a chance”

    When will the Philadelphia Eagles Brass listen for a change and give their fans a chance?

    No more projects or experiments.


    But we all knows how this ends…..They will show incompetence once more and you can bank on it.


  67. Jeffrie Lurie came to town an said his franchise wasn’t after one superbowl, but multiple super bowl championships, well the nfc east will be home to 12 superbowl champions after the giants beat the patriots and we have ownership like Lurie and his coach for life, Andy Reid, torturing poor souls like songs, still no super bowl, while our biggest rival is about to get another in four years, if you live in this area, get out a bit, its tough to take, but whats worse is so-called eagles fans on this damn website calling out people like songs, rocko, bsm, who are voices for change, yes change can be worse, but it could be better, far better, maybe then a superbowl, but the timid masses would rather lurk in the comfort of mediocrity

  68. I will go out on a limb and state that Owner Jeff Lurie will announce next January, after the Eagles miss the 2012 Playoffs, that Juan Castillo is the next Head Coach of the Philadelphia Eagles.. You heard it here first…

  69. Jake,

    The problem is that those guys want change everywhere except where its needed most.

    Does anyone out there honestly think that if the Birds had dumped all they\ir coaches this year and installed a new system Vick would have….what….excelled? He hasn’t even got this system down after 3 years.

    Look I’m all for change and am looking forward to it in 2013 when everything starts fresh…new GM…new coaches…and…most importantly…new QB.

    Now what I also really hope is that the powers that be do see the writing on the wall, understand that Vick will not be the Eagles’ QB after next season and so use the first or second rounder this year on a quarterback.

  70. Starting Offensive line–up for the 2013 Philadelphia Eagles Coached by Juan Castillo who go on to win the Super Bowl

    QB – Robert Gibson III
    RB – L McCoy
    FB – Evan Rodriquez (Draft Pick from Temple)
    TE – JeMarcuss Finley (Free-Agent signing)
    WR – Robert Meachem (Free-Agent), Jeremy Maclin and Brian Quick (Draft Pick)
    OL – Peters, DeCastro (Draft Pick), Kelce, Watkins, Herremans

  71. Vinnie, I would agree with you if Vick was here through the duration.

    Reid inherited a team that was fortunate to be playing against a very weak NFC east during his first 5 years.

    Was it Vick who decided not to resign Trotter in his prime which created a void at MLB that cost us an NFC championship game?

    Was it Vick who decided not to run the ball against the Bucs that game?

    Was it Vick who decided to go into seasons with weak receivers that couldn’t get off the line that cost us the NFC Championship against the Panthers?

    Was it Vick who was calling in the plays with time ticking down in the Superbowl as if it was the beginning of the 4th quarter?

    Was it Vick the drafted a 26 year old guard in the 1st round?

    Was it Vick woh hired a failed offensive line coach as the defensive coordinator after guessing wrong on Sean McDermott?

    Michael Vick was incarcerated when the Eagles traded out of the 1st round to get Kolb knowing we were a few pieces short from being a powerhouse.

    So, come on guy.

    You can’t see the forest for the trees.

    Yes, Vick must improve but just examine how Reid used Vick to shield his apparent Kolb draft which bought him time.

    This Reid guy is an ultimate illusionist.

    No soon as he’s about to be fully exposed there’s another prop put in place to shield his incompetence.

    Players come and go yet he stays.

    He’s the constant problem.

    So, I’m not going to focus on Vick and fall for Reid’s slight of hand.

    There would be no Vick if it wasn’t for Andy Reid.

    So let’s focus on the “BIGGER” problem first.


  72. You can’t roll with the “weak division”
    business – its how a very large # of teams make it through.

    49ers in the 80s and 90s got to feast on Saints, Rams and Cards – was a joke…(till the Saints became competitive late 80s with 4 LBs and the ragin’ cajun)
    NE this year beat no +.500 teams…and in they 3 out of 4 years had to compete with the Shit Bills, Dolphins, Jets.
    When Bills went to 4 str8 champ games they had no competition from NE, Mia or NYG and on and on.

    You make some valid points…the 4th Q in the SB was beyond strange…..but others are reaching….

    The trotter thing….that game was lost on the long play that was a crossing play across the middle. Do you really think Trotter could have kept up with Juravisious(sp?) a WR across the middle? I doubt it. Wasn’t his strong suit.

    The panthers game. Didn’t McNabb get taken out with a very late hit right at the start of the game? Who knows what would have happened. WR is the most overhyped/overrated position in football anyway (probably why it gets so much play in here) The Pats won SBs with Branch and who?

    And I don’t buy all the “we didn’t have WRs this year, we didn’t have LBs this year” arguement. What team doesn’t have holes? Its impossible to fill them all and time it all out so everyone is in their prime at the same time. Lookl at the Pats this year playing Wrs as DBs….do you really think the Pack don’t want to upgrade their RBs or DBs?, DO you not think (deep down) SF doesn’t want to improve its QB, or the Giants their DBs and RBs, TE?

    When Reid “ignored” the WRS it was because he was concentrating on OL, DL, DB and QB….(and well he should have) and he did a pretty good job at those spots. Going into this past year pass D was a much bigger concern than the run D – was it not? So in comes Babin, Jenkins, Nnamdi, and DRC. Now the results were mixed, but you can’t say the admin didn’t attempt to solve the most glaring need on the D…pass D. And on O it was the line…so now we have 2 young starters who are getting national praise.

    Sorry man, but teams just can’t jump in and change/fix/improve every single position every single year.

    BTW – the 26 yr old guard is going to become a pro-bowler.

    “Michael Vick was incarcerated when the Eagles traded out of the 1st round to get Kolb knowing we were a few pieces short from being a powerhouse.”

    And there you are most wrong. The Eagles’ weere not at all close to being a powerhouse. Reid was drafting McNabb’s replacement a few years down the road. Solid, forward thinking. The fact that Kolb didn’t pan out is irrelevant. If we fired GMs every time a QB didn’t pan out, there’d be no more GMs as about 70% of drafted QBs fail to achieve at a high level in the NFL.

    Reid didn’t “guess” with McDermott. He wanted to keep JJs style of D and so promoted JJs protege. Did Peyton “guess” when hiring Gregg Williams? Because Williams was about to be fired if he didn’t take the job in STL…..

    “Reid used Vick as a shield” Like Captain America? That’s a stupid comment. Listen, if you think that the master magician Reid just sits in his office plotting ways to keep himself in the job and “trick” everyone…well…more power to you I guess. But its wrong.

    “Players come and go yet he stays.

    He’s the constant problem. ” I could say the same about MV. 2 teams, 3 coaches, multiple peobowl players around him and he always stays the same.

  73. ***Free Agent MLB’s Available This Off Season***- Curtis Lofton, Stephen Tulloch, D’Qwell Jackson, David Hawthorne. With all the young LB’s the eagles have, it might make sense to get some experience there and pick a young DL.. Devon Still, Quinton Coples, Nick Perry, Whitney Mercilus, Dontari Poe, Fletcher Cox etc etc..

    They should have Asante’s salary off the cap. And LaRon Landry, Michael Griffin and Tyvon Branch are FA Safety’s too. Eagles are young there as well.. Makes sense to get some young yet veteran players that are proven in the league here rather than trying to hit on a LB or Safety in the draft… This could potentially be the eagles intentions come Free Agency…

  74. JH, I would be all for them bringing in a vet at linebacker. I think there will be some really solid players available in that position on FA. I would be all for Lofton if Tulloch resigns with the Lions like i think he will. However, Im not for any of those safeties…Yes LAndry can be really good but the guy gets hurt all the time and refused to have surgery this offseason i believe…Thats why i think its essential that you go all out and draft Barron with your 1st round pick. The safety position is not deep like the DT and linebacker is this year…we need to sure it up once and for all. So sick of watching these bums gets fooled in the game when they wouldn’t even start on any other team in the league other than maybe Allen.

  75. Vinnie…read this… actually said the….

    “The fact that Kolb didn’t pan out is irrelevant”.


    Trading out of the 1st round to get a player that didn’t get on the field when that pick had layers that could have immediately help?

    Mcnabb’s replacement?

    How did that pan out?

    It cost us an opportunity to get better.

    Do you get that?

    That played a part in our organization going backward with a team on the verge of competing for another championship run.

    It’s guys like you who keeps Banner counting nickles.

    There would be no Vick without Reid.

    so, shouldn’t you focus on Reid first and foremost?

  76. If it was Reid that pulled the strings to sign Vick, then yes, that clearly moves reid to #1 on the lost. Though I don’t think it was Reid who was making the call on Vick. I think that was Roseman under with that call.

  77. vinnie, are you kidding me, it wasn’t that dork roseman who signed vick, nor reid,
    kolb was reid’s annointed one to succeed mcnabb, the decision to sign vick then go with nhim as a starter was thjat money grubbing owner, who has always put profits above winning, I dont want to turn this into an argument that kolb sucks, vick is great, its irrelevant to my point, vick is here and starting because of the wwf, I mean NFL, which decided vick would be best received in philly, who has had a black quarterback at the helm since Randall, except a fdew white stiffs who occupied the post before mcnabb, how else can you explain the lack of clamor for change with the quarterback, mike vick, who sucks, the vick lovers don’t care, so the ownership that panders to them, they dont care

  78. TI think it was Owner Jeff Lurie’s Wife who made the call to sign Vick
    with the strong urging from NFL Commisioner Roger Goodell.. GM Roseman probably didn’t even know who MIke Vick was…

  79. Pheags i do agree about the safeties getting tricked easily, for me it was the game against the patriots that really made me see how poor this team was.. I know they stunk the place up for the majority of the year but that game was kinda like our superbowl kinda, that was our measuring stick, and watching brady make us look like a JV team did not sit well with me… nate allen had his worst game and kurt coleman a close 2nd.. they looked just as bad as the linebackers did… But imo i think they will go DLine again either DT or DE, not LB not S, i could be wrong but there seeing a team out of the nfc east with a dominant pass rush in the SB, a team they beat and can certainly hang with… so they are hit with the reality stick again in that you need a DL that can rush the passer and play the run successfully.. the giants are proving that right now.. Jason Pierre Paul would of looked good in the eagles jersey over 6’0 injury prone brandon graham, i havent given up on graham and it seems the eagles havent either but man could the eagles avoid a true superstar probowl player year in and out on defense…

  80. Wel jake,

    I’m certainly not going that far, but it is clear that Vick has some incredible brand loyalty. Guy is teflon. And his fans are insanely loyal. I’m sure this did factor into the decision to sign him.

  81. Vinnie and Navy you 2 are so funny.

    Both of you suffer from dumbneisa.

    “Mornhinweg said Michael Vick and Steve Young, whom Mornhinweg worked with in San Francisco, are similar in makeup and ability.”

    That’s a quote from a article last year in the Daily News. From a guy who worked with both players…. End of discussion on that topic.

    Brett Farve is going to make the Hall of Fame as well. He’s a bum. A human interception machine, who has cost his team many more playoff games than he’s won.

    So your argument that the Vikings defensive line has hall of fame players does not hold water. SO WHAT??? You asked why Tarkenton did not win. If the other team is steam rolling your defense and making Clarance Davis set a superbowl rushing record then they stunk for that game. Period.

    Your comment that I am just making stuff up???

    Either the Raiders and Miami set Superbowl rushing RECORDS against the Viking or they did not.

    They did. It’s a fact. Whether the Vikings had hall of famers or not. They did not play like hall of famers on that day. So the Vikings and Tarkenton lost Period.

    The Buffaloe Bills had hall of famer bruce smith on their superbowl defense. Did’nt they give up over 50 points in the superbowl.?

    Is that Jim Kelly’s fault???

    It is you 2 that just act like things did not happen, to fit your arguement.

    You want to have a discussion then stick to the facts.

    Fact: A qualified authoriy(a NFL coach who worked with both) said that Vick has the ability as Steve Young.

    Fact: a defense with future hall of fame players can get demolished in the superbowl.

    You 2 morons are the reason I usually don’t respond.

    You remind me of the Republicans in congress.

    It does not matter what Obama says…They go with the opposite. Just for the hell of it. Facts be damned.

  82. Yeah BSM – too bad for the first two year Obamas party owned the house and a veto proof senate – in other words – much like your useless posts – didn’t matter what the republicans did – dems could do whatever they wanted – but when they couldn’t get anything done – needed to blame someone –

    so com eon BSM – we need another posting of all Andy Reids faults for the last 14 years – but I was hoping you could add to the product and maybe provide us other usefull tidbots like Andy’s weight, waist line size, cholesteral count. If you really want to go balls out – how about some wardrobe commentary – cause those things have about as much impact on next season as all the other shit you post –

  83. What Morningwheg says and what Vick does are 2 entirely different things don’cha think? Steve Young my ass. Stop beind just plain stupid. One is a hall of famer who dominated the league for 6 or 7 straight years, the other played 4 good games in a distinctively mediocre career. Enough with the Steve Young bullshit already.

    I have, and always will state that Brett Favre was the second most over-hyped player ever. Right after Mike Vick. He sucked…especially over the final 6 or 7 years of his career when the bobble heads on TV keep trying to convince everyone that he was “the gunslinger”. Who didn’t know his career would end on a stupid interception? I still don’t even understand why you brought him up. Other than to reinforce that once TV commentators start down the “he is something special” line of thought, they never give it up and will stick with it despite mountains of evidence against. (which they’ve done for both Favre and Vick)

    Not onto your “facts”:
    “The Buffalo Bills had hall of famer Bruce Smith on their superbowl defense. Didn’tt they give up over 50 points in the superbowl.?” Umm ya they did. After their offence had turned the ball over 9x in the game. Including 4 ints from Mr. Kelly. 9 turnovers? 9!! Lucky it wasn’t 70 pts.

    Did, or did not, Fran Tarkenton throw 6 interceptions in the SBs?
    The Raiders did set a rushing record, but only after Minny’s 3 turnovers put Oak up in the game. Tarkenton was terrible and didn’t finish. Turn the ball over and then ask, “where was the defense!”

    Against Miami? Rushing records? I wonder who won the turnover battle in that game? 2-0. Turn the ball over. Blame the defense!

    As for Jim Kelly…where the losses his fault?

    I don’t think he hurt the team in the first game, but he certainly didn’t excel, He did put them in position to win at the end… No turnovers adn the game becomes a coin flip…..but the other 3 games….

    His 4 ints in the Washington game didn’t help did they? The one to open the second half was a bit of a killer.. Qb throws 4 picks. Blame the defense! (sensing the theme here….)

    In the first Q of the Dallas game he threw 2 ints and had a fumble. Led to 3 tds. 21 – 7 Dallas. The Bills threw 4 ints and had 8 fumbles on the day (they recovered 3). A total of 9 turnovers!!! 9!! Turn the ball over, but ask “where was the defense!”

    And in the second game….wait for it….Bills leading and Thomas fumbled….now behind by a bit…Kelly with ball and…you guess it….interception. I’m shocked, shocked really that the Bills lost the turnover battle 1-3 in this game. Blame the defense!

    Fact. Fact. Fact. You keep railing about the defense when NFL history clearly shows that the teams that do not give the ball away win consistently. You then try to prove that it was the Vikings and Bills defense that let the team down, when in all cases the teams offenses (esp QBs) spent the entire game giving the ball to the other team.

    Jim Kelly (and Reich) threw 9 interceptions in their 3 SP losses. So ya….I think you could say that 3 of the losses were pretty heavily weighted in the direction of Jim Kelly’s fault. But not according to you…..according to you it was Bruce Smith’s fault!!

    Obama. Smart move doing the opposite of what that guy says.

  84. navy – BSM wasn’t referring to Obama’s first two years, he was referring to time since the congress became republican lead….come on now….

  85. you are wrong schiller….you can’t escape the fact that your guy had no one to oppose anything he did for 2 years…veto-proof…..that is the fact. And the fact is he pushed a large majority of his agenda through during that time…we are now living with the results…you are wrong schill

  86. Greenfan – I agree with what you said there. But your response was misinterpreting my statement.

    BSM made a comment about the Reps in the past two years.
    Navy then responded about the years BEFORE that.

    I clarified that. So how am I wrong? One said something about oranges, and the other responded about apples.

  87. Comparing Vick to Eli, I would take Vick in a heartbeat over Eli Manning. It was just last year Eli was referred to as a turnover machine, and now he’s considered to be “elite”…………..I don’t think so. Eli and the Giants got lucky to get into the Superbowl race, not because of their playing skills and certainly not because of Eli being “elite”. Eli was beaten by Grossman and the Redskins not once but twice, and you believe that he is “elite”. Do you think that Eli and the Giants could make the same type of comeback against the Mike Vick and the Eagles and Vick and the Eagles had against them, do you really think the Eli could orchestrate that type of a comeback? Or do you think that Eli and the Giants can have the same type of Monday night performance as the Eagles had against the Washington Redskins?……….I don’t think so.

    Another thing you folks fail to remember, Eli has been with the same group for some time now. Michael Vick hasn’t had that. Fact is Michael Vick has not had a full offseason with ota’s since 2006. After coming back into the league in 2009 he still had no offseason preparation. In 2010 he had offseason with but with the second group. I know you all can remember that it was Kevin Kolb who had that position with the starters not Vick. Vick came in that 2010 season and covered up a lot of the flaws with the oline. And of course in the 2011 season all players had a limited offseason. Do you think Eli could do that……………I don’t, in fact I believe there are very few that could and Eli isn’t one of them.

    When in Atlanta Michael Vick pretty much carried the Falcons on his back while taking them to the playoffs twice.

    One more thing had the Eagles won just one more game the Giants and “great Eli” wouldn’t even be in the mix, or had GB played the way they had played all year, they wouldn’t be in it. Not to mention had the 49ers, not fumbled those balls they wouldn’t be in th mix. Stop pretending that Eli is the reason the Giants are in the mix for the Superbow, because he’s not. Stop pretending that he’s a better qb than Vick………….he’s not, not even close. I am sure Eli wishes he had half the skills that Mike has.

    @Vinnietheevictor, your hate for Mike Vick is obvious. I am just curious, why is it that you are always the first or second to post comments on these blogs. You tend to post and paste stats day end and day out, don’t you have a life outside of posting on G.Cobb?? I don’t even believe you are an Eagles fan, but at the same time I don’t think that a lot of you making these comments are fans. If your dislike/hate for Mike Vick and the Eagles is this strong why do you even bother to watch the game…………on second thought I don’t believe a lot of you do.

  88. ok shcill…I think we once agreed that we can talk politics elsewhere…we can agree to disagree here….but think the GCobb is a better place to talk sports

  89. Is it me or dies it seem like the Republicans are having debates like every other night… Who agreed with this strategy.. I think by the end of the Republicans Primaray Season the independent/middle of the road Americans will look at whoever is left and say, “Are you kidding me”… These guys have made fools of themselves if you ask me.. Only John Huntsman has a brain but was too chicken shit to challenge anyone and Rick Santurom has come acress as the most practical candidate but has low name recognition and won’t do well in the Big City/Urban Areas

  90. ok schilll…I must have mistaken you for someone reasonable….I will be happy to give my opinion of the pitiful state that the current administration has taken the country..more to follow

  91. Paul, they do this every presidential election, yes, it’s a lot of debates, but that’s what (the party who doesn’t have a sitting Prez) does every election cycle.

    I agree about the current GOP situation – but Santorum? Come on man, that guy is a clueless nut (and that’s being kind).

  92. Green – alrighty. But do you think that everything Bush did is null and void now because we have a new Prez? Do you not believe that some of the effects of Clinton’s Presidency were still in play during Bush’s presidency? Does it reset and all become the current prez’s fault every new election cycle?

  93. Bush never had the majorities in both houses of congress that Obama did during his first 2 years….Bush was not perfect…No Child Left Behind clearly illustrates this, but I doubt you would ever be intellectuallt honest enough to state a ploicy of Obama`s that has failed (without first trying to `blame Bush“)…can you actually be intellectually honest about Obama`s performance

  94. Greenfan – You are correct about Bush, but notice, you ducked my questions and refocused on other things. I’ll take that as an admission that my points were accepted by you.

    As far as being ‘intellectually honest’ about Obama – good point – lets do that. Well if you’re going to be intellectually honest, you’ll certainly take into account the fact that Federal Government Policies are NEVER targeted for immediate results. Therefore, we can’t accurately guage the affects of Obama’s political actions yet – look at the Affordable Care Act – (if left to be carried out), it won’t be fully implemented until 2019! And the parts that have already been implemented have been very successful. Same with his economic policies – Ford is doing great now – but for the most part, there’s no way in hell we could see the full results by now.

    THAT is being intellectually honest.

  95. hey short, what do you think of trading Vick to miami for a 2nd, or 3rd round pick and signing Peyton Manning for 2-3 years

  96. Paulman’s Rankings of recent POTUS on a Scale of 1-10

    Obama – 3.5
    GW Bush – 3
    B Clinton – 7
    GH Bush – 4
    R Reagan – 7
    J Carter – 2
    G Ford – 3.5
    R Nixon – 5.5
    LB Johnson – 4.5
    JF Kennedy – 4
    D Eisenhower- 5
    HS Truman – 7
    FD Roosevelt- 6

  97. QB Manning rejoining his OL Coach Howard Mudd… I like it…
    Sign DE Roger Mathis, Safety Melvin Bullitt , MLB Gary Brackens and WR Reggie Wayne
    Trade Vick, D-Jax, A Samuel, B Graham, J Jarret and use those Draft Picks
    to move up and get more 2nd/3rd ROund picks

  98. lol Pman. Could you imagine….. we throw the ball alot with the likes of Dmac and Vick. it would be 100% if they had a guy like manning.

  99. If Mccain woulda gotten Bin Laden and got us outta Iraq and created the jobs i see on the I-95 here in D-ware the GOP would be screaming the power ranking for the presidents.Plenty of things he has failed us on and that’s just a part of being the commander. But what about the fact he’s been getting after these terrorists?Bush did it ok,i supported him in the second term cause i feel you should stand behind your leader at soem point instead of bashing him until the cows come home. At some point you must realize there in office cause they care about the country and they’re our leaders in this great country. Also the amount of fillabustering that the GOP has done is unprecedented.Its pointless and has shown the side of the GOP that proves there a fridge element in this country. Eliteists with there pockets being lined by big biz.

    Newt..outa touch egomaniac who actually asked his wife if he could have affairs on the side…someone i want running the show.

    Romney….one of the richest presidential canindates in history and made his wealth off laying americans off and gutting bizness’s. Really relates to the common man.

    GOP better re-group and find a legit guy for 16’…maybe they’ll be able to create a cyborg by then that looks more human then the scumbags there rolling out.

  100. about the pres thing…… i think its funny that the Bail out prez was bailed out by the rep’s with the cast of goons they pullled together. At this point i’d vote for a twice baked potato over these guys.

  101. Sorry schill, I will gladly answer each direct question because I surely do not agree.

    But do you think that everything Bush did is null and void now because we have a new Prez?….certainly not. But also recognize that he had a congress with both houses controled by the oposite party,( so he was not able to dictate as much policy as Obama was able to do in his first 2 years) Much of the mortgage debacle was a direct result of the Dodd / Frank deregulation of the mrotgage industry. This lead to much of the mess that was present during the transition of the presidents, but I would not lay the entirely at the feet of his predessor. There were “Bush Tax Cuts” that this administration immediately took aim to repeal. This was something left over from the previous administration that should have been left alone, but instead the administration prefers to play the divisive class warfare card.

    Do you not believe that some of the effects of Clinton’s Presidency were still in play during Bush’s presidency? While not a fan of much of Clinton’s actions as president, I will admit that he did “Lead” the nation. I believe that he often had a demoralizing affect on the military, but he demonstrated an ability to work with the other side of the aisle when it was in the best interest of the country. I believe that when he and Newt worked to create a balanced budget, that was something that both parties could be proud. So yes, there were things both positive and negative that transfered from Clinton to Bush. Unfortunately, if the Clinton administration had been more vigilant against international terrorist threats, then maybe Bush would not of had to deal with the 9/11 crisis only 8 months into his 1st term.

    Does it reset and all become the current prez’s fault every new election cycle

    No…see above.

    your turn schill

  102. bottom line for me….. this pres told the world… and our enemies….. when we were leaving iraq. bad idea…. put those people in harms way.

  103. It’s not like you are going to pull everyone else out over a weekend Stevo..
    I would have rather he said nothing and jsut start pulling troops down, but then you get the 1000 questions everyday to the Defense Dept/POTUS a& Generals about what’s going on.. I am not really sure there’s such a good and proper way of getting out of a “War of Choice”
    What would have been your suggestion .. Do you state anything publicly or not..

  104. Bottom line to me,
    9/11 Attacks happened under GW’s Watch, and even received Memos as recently of that August, when he was on Vacation in Crawford,Tx< about Bin Ladens plan of flying planes into buildings..
    Then GW Bush put everything afterwards under the premise "War on Terror" and then sent the Federal Budget out of Control with the new Homeland Security Dept,who isn't really accoutnable to anyone along with all the $$$ and funding needed to mobilize hundreds of 1000's of troop to fight in Iraq again a (War of Choice), while he tried to capture Bin LAden in Afghanistan with 1100 SPecial Ops forces and relying on the Afghan/Pakistans for help..
    What an idiot he was and his VP Dick Cheney was really running the Country and running roughsot all over the intellectually challenged GW Bush

  105. Greenfan – thanks for clarifying your thoughts. And yes, we’re not going to change eachother’s minds or anything – clearly we’re on different sides of the well known divide politically.

    BUT – your original post about politics today was this:

    “you can’t escape the fact that your guy had no one to oppose anything he did for 2 years…veto-proof…..that is the fact. And the fact is he pushed a large majority of his agenda through during that time…we are now living with the results”

    And my point is, that results of a president’s first two years in office aren’t accurately (from an intellectual standpoint to use your language) measurable in the 3rd year of his presidency. Your statements in this conversation we’ve had support what I said – that presedential policies (that actually make it to law) effects last and really have impact years later. So it’s really unfair to say “look at Obama’s results” as a blanket statement for not liking what he did – it’s like judging a draft pick during his rookie year.

    Obama’s policy has yet to take full effect so although you’re entitled to your opinion (duh), pointing to ‘results’ now is messed up.

    I’m assuming you’re referring to the fact that our economy isn’t fully recovered or that we still have other problems. But to say that the state of our nation right now is all a direct result (only) of Obama’s first 2 years in presidency is WRONG. And we have yet to really see what his policy will do with America.

  106. Paulman’s Proposal on TERM LIMITS for all elected Polititcians at the Federal Level

    #1) POTUS — 1 5 Year Term and that’s it, you get elected and come to Washingtont to accomlish your agenda, Who cares about populatirty, or re-elections, fund-raising,there’s no one left to impress… etc,etc.. Come in, get things done, make your mark on History and then move on..

    #2) Senator — 2 4-Year Terms at Max — (No Lifelong Senators), again come to Washington, reppresent your State and try to improve the quality of life for everyone

    #3) Congressman/woman — 3 3- Year Terms Max (No lifelong Congresspeople) I don’t like the current 2 year terms for it’s hard to get much accomplished in 2 years time..

    #4) SUpreme Court – 1 10 Year Term Max (No lifetime appointments)
    Again, come to the SC, serve your 10 years, make you contribution and then time to move on…

    Where you limit the time served for POliticans, then all of a sudden, the cronyism and even Lobbying lose their influence… It’s harder to keep buying “Polictians” when they are only going to be around for a finite amount of time… Take some of this crazy $$$ out of the system and how long has everyone been talking about campaign reforem and now this year , the PAC $$$ are unlimited with end in sight… We talk about a Free and Open Democracy here in the United States and it’s simply not true… It’s all about the money, the access of money or you can’t run or win an election withough it…

  107. Pman- i would have let the q’s roll. I want a pres who says…. the troops will come home when its time. Right now we are helping the people over there and when my people and I feel its the right time they will be home.

    I also would not have said… “I got Osama” like i heard over and over. It was a powerplay and it was the wrong one. He should have focused on how the troops did it. But…. whatever. Im just nit picking.

    i dont lean one way or the other but id love to see a real leader stand up and do something. Have not seen one in a long while.

  108. @ schill….to address a couple of your statements.

    “So it’s really unfair to say “look at Obama’s results” as a blanket statement for not liking what he did – it’s like judging a draft pick during his rookie year.”…..yes, I guess that after a single year that might be fair, but after 3/4 of his term I believe that you need to judge the man on what he has accomplished, how he has lead, and the effects of his leadership and policies. On each I would not rate his performance as deserving of another term, but that is my opinion and you are entitled to your own.

    From my own personal experience, I deal with large corporations on a daily basis. As a result of the policies that have been enacted by the administration, from healthcare to tax policies, capital spending within these corporations has been drastically affected. I have been told by more than one purchasing manager that they are waiting until after the election to see when and if they will be spending addition money or making additional cuts. Yes, this is only a single person talking about his personal industry experience, but I would tend to believe that with the state of the current economy it is happening elsewhere also.

    Lastly, Pman touched on another issue that I believe is changing the face of how we elect our public officials…SuperPacs, while constitutional, are evolving into a dangerous force where billions of dollars..and thus influence are what we are left with.

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