Incriminating Audio Will Make Water Hotter For Gregg Williams

Unfortunately for Gregg Williams, I think “suspended indefinitely” could become “suspended permanently” after NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell gets the chance to sit down and systematically go through the sound of the Saints game vs. the Niners this past season.  His timing couldn’t be worse as the NFL turns up the focus on concussion injuries.

Documentary filmmaker Sean Pamphilon has plenty of comments by Williams on tape during the Saints battle against the Niners and he told Michael Silver of Yahoo Sports that Williams can be heard encouraging to pound the heads of and intentionally injure Niners quarterback Alex Smith, running back Frank Gore, wide receivers Michael Crabtree and Kyle Williams.

Pamphilon said: “At one point Williams says, ‘We hit [expletive] Smith right there’ – then he points under his chin [and continues] – ‘remember me.’ Then he rubs his thumb against his index and middle fingers – the cash sign – and says, ‘I got the first one. I got the first one. Go get it. Go lay that [expletive] out.’

“We’ve got to do everything in the world to make sure we kill Frank Gore’s head,” Williams said to the Saints defensive players. “We want him running sideways. We want his head sideways.”

“We need to decide whether Crabtree wants to be a fake-ass prima donna or he wants to be a tough guy”, Williams told Saints defenders. “We need to find that out, and he becomes human when you [expletive] take out that outside ACL.”

“We need to find out in the first two series of the game, the little wide receiver (Kyle Williams), No. 10, about his concussion,” Williams said. “We need to [expletive] put a lick on him, move him to decide. He needs to decide.”

Pamphilon says he heard a couple of Giants players talking after the NFC Championship game talking about how they targeted Kyle Williams because of his concussion history.

20 thoughts on “Incriminating Audio Will Make Water Hotter For Gregg Williams

  1. I listened to the tape this morning……he sounds like alot of coaches I’ve had, except for targeting a specific players concussion and ACL…..that was really bad IMO….the cursing and yelling for hard hitting, knock them out stuff is ok, but when you tell the room to go after Crabtree’s ACL…..or to tell them to be sure to give #10 another concussion….that is just wrong.

    I wouldn’t be suprised if he is banned from coaching…..and if Peyton knew about it or was there…he should have his suspension extended. Goodell will come down on this hard, you watch.

  2. I guess the worst part about it is that the team was notified a couple days before this game that the league was re-opening the investigation into this and that Loomis and PEyton said it wasn’t going on – the articel was on I think CBSSports ‘Saints Apeeal Doomed’ this is probably where the commish got the idea Peyton mislead him? Maybe –

  3. I love the Eagles as much as anyone. They are far too big a concern in my life for it to be healthy. But I’d rather that they lose games than win them like the Saints did, not playing hard, but rather playing dirty. A deliberate intent to injure, targeting knees and twisting ankles, going for head shots for additional financial bonuses is a disgrace. GW is a pus-filled festering abcess on the NFL, and there is no way in hell he should ever be on a sideline at any level of the game. A cash bonus for say, special teams stopping a kickoff returner before the 25 yardline is against league rules, but a minor infraction. Handing out $500 for an INT I can live with too. But not an intentional ACL shot, that is just too far.

  4. Drew Brees is so pissed about the Franchis Tag that he can’t see stright..
    Don’t be surprised to hear about a Trade, In fact, Brees will probably hold out and may even demand one… (Watch for him to land in Miami is my Big Draft Day trade)

  5. Ummm…Joe. We cheer for a team who’s 4 most famous reg season games were the Bodybag game, the house of pain game and Bounty bowl I and II.

    One of our most beloved head coaches openly put bounties on other players.

    I remember the hit Hopkins put on the Oiler WR (was it givens) when he put his forearm into Given’s face. It was abrutal, deliberate headshot. We all cheered.

    One of my colleagues is an ex-cfler. Fullback. We have been talking a lot about the recent controversy. He doesn’t think its that big a deal. He’s about to undergo his second surgery on his neck due to cumulative damage from his playing day – leagine with his head. His line, “I mean you’re out there to hurt the other guy….you’ve got to use your helmet as a weapon. Everyone does.

    You don’t think Ray Lewis isn’t out to hurt someone every tackle? You don’t think players target injuries? The Broncos won 2 superbowls cut blocking every DL they played. The panthers beat the Birds on a ridiculous late hit on McNabb lying on the ground. Than guy deliberately put his head into McNabb’s ribs.

    I still feel the Patriots business was worse than this.

  6. vinnie, you sound like a barbarian, your friend is demented, have you ever made a tackle on any level, do you know what it feels like to make, take a clean hit at an advanced level, if you did you and you still hold that position you are more of a barbarian than I think, this guy wiliams is an animal and should never coach again at any level, and if this is the current mindset of football the sport will eventually be litigated out of business and rightfully so

  7. Vinie, I’d suggest that your reply simply affirms the national perspective that Philadelphia fans are savages and losers. Some may venerate the memory of Buddy Ryan, but that fact remains he was a stiff as a head coach. Never won a darn thing. So he could have put a bounty on all the kickers in the world, and it mattered none in the overall scheme of things. By the way, its a pretty candyass move putting a bounty on the kicker. Yep, that’s the sign of a tough guy, he certainly deserves legendary staus for that stunt. No, i do not think Ray Lewis is out to hurt people, he is out to win the game that day. That is all that matters to him, winning the contest. Every coach I ever had told us to knock an opponent down, help him and up then blast him again. Keep coming at them every play or possession until the end of the game, then shake hands and start to perpare for the next opponent. I do not need to see people suffer intentional cheap shot crippling injuries to be entertained on Sunday.

  8. Who really care about this anyway? I’ll take Gregg Williams over Juan freakin Castillo any day of the week. It’s no surprise players injures players to gain advantage…..Hell, look at how many times Vick hits the carpet after the ball’s released….That’s football.

    Give us a real Defensive Coordinator.

    even if Greg Williams get slapped with a lifetime ban, he’ll always have something we’ll never get.

    A Superbowl Ring

  9. Tonya Harding, Mike Tyson, Jose Cansceco, Mark Gastineau, Roger Clemons, Bill Belicheck, Ben Johnson, MArk McGuire, Barry Bonds, Danny Almonte, Rosie Ruiz, Diego Maradona –

    yeah Songs – history is littered with the names of people who decided it was quicker, easier, to take a short cut and cheat rather then beat opponents fair and square – course someone of your character would find this a topic of ‘who cares’ and yes, to everyone I know that played and coached – it is a huge surprise – it is absolutley unimaginable a player would attempt to hurt another player on purpose – you love Biran Dawkins – a few years ago he almost decapitated a Giant player on a Monday night game – Dawkins, a man of honor and character – called the hated Giant rival and apologized –

    as for who really cares – the answer should be – everyone cares – next thing you know some idiot wanna be who wants to be a ‘real Defensive Coordinator’ is going to offer some 8th grade AYF or Pop Warner kid a trip to a hamburger stand if he knocks the other teams RB out……….

    Character – Honor – why don;t you look the words up

  10. On Daily News Live yesterday they had Jerimiah Trotter on as a call in and asked him what he thought of the audio from Williams and I thought his comments were great. He said as a former player hearing that tape made him want to lace em up and get out on the field one more time. He said that speech wasn’t to far off from what he has heard from coaches through out his career. As to the Crabtree ACL comment, he said that Crabtree was dealing with an ACL issue in the playoffs ( I was not aware of this ) but it was common teachings for a defensive coach to point out injuries of offensive playmakers to the team. Trot also passed along a comment from former Eagle Hugh Douglas that I thought was great, “Everybody wants the Steak but doesn’t wanna know what was done to get the Steak”. Football isn’t for everyone. It takes a certain mentality to play the game and a lot of the Great Ones ( Ronnie Lott, Lawrence Taylor, Dick Butkis, Mean Joe Green & the list goes on…) may have been out right crazy when they were on the field but this is why a lot of us like this game.

  11. Vinnie I agree with your comments above. This is why some of us like the game of Football. I used to love watching Jacked up on ESPN right before the Monday night games! Big hits are part of the game of Football.

  12. Navy – I have to completely disagree with your line…”it is absolutley unimaginable a player would attempt to hurt another player on purpose”

    I’m talking hockey here, but I was told many times. You hit to hurt. In fact on a TSN discussion last night (discussing the Pitt hit on Briere few days ago) the line, “you hit to hurt” came up 2 from former NHLers. Now they then did the whole, “now we don“t mean hit to injure buuuut……”

    Lets be honest here. Players know abut and target injuries. They hit to take the other guy out of the game. This is something the NFL and fans have to come to grips with.

  13. Perhaps Bill Simmons puts it better: (you probably read the same editorial Sully)

    When Do We Draw the Line on NFL Violence?

    Fines, suspensions and concussion awareness are fighting an uphill battle against hypocrisy and fan apathy
    By Bill Simmons on April 5, 2012PRINT

    Yeah, I heard the audio of former New Orleans defensive coordinator Gregg Williams urging his players to injure various 49ers before their January playoff game. It’s pretty compelling — not just because he wanted to maim Michael Crabtree and Vernon Davis, and not just because he may have been illegally taped without his consent, but because Williams might be the worst motivational speaker in recent American history. No wonder the Saints lost that game. If that was a sports movie scene, the director would have fired Williams and replaced him with another actor. What a buffoon.

    Of course, it’s 2012 — the Year of Internet Self-Righteousness — which means we need to feign disgust, pile on the Saints, argue for Williams to receive the NFL’s death penalty and basically freak out that a football coach would ever do that. So let’s concede the following points. No, you shouldn’t instruct your players to hurt people. Yes, you should be fined and suspended for that. Yes, Gregg Williams came off like an insensitive Neanderthal, and yes, it would be difficult (if not impossible) to take him seriously as a coach again. His professional career is over. The tape is pretty damning. Even if it’s far-fetched that any Saint listened to that speech and thought to himself, Maybe my creepy weirdo of a coach is right, maybe I SHOULD go after Michael Crabtree’s ACL!

    But there’s a bigger story here: the laughable notion that anyone can change an ingrained culture of violence overnight. Any parent knows that kids never listen the first time — it takes four or five times, and usually a raised voice or a threat, before they heed your wishes. Players and coaches are wired the same way. The league never turned off its “We’re gonna look the other way, keep being violent and keep those hits coming” switch until the 2010 season, after that infamous October weekend with all the signature hits, when Roger Goodell said, “Oh, crap, maybe I should start fining these guys because the Sports Legacy Institute has accumulated three-plus years of rock-solid concussion evidence and lawsuits are coming. Better later than never!”

    And so the league started cracking down. Less than 18 months later, we’re supposed to be baffled and appalled that the Saints would shrug off those warnings, that they wanted to win money for crippling opponents or knocking them out … you know, because football players aren’t supposed to think that way or something. (Watching ESPN this morning was pretty funny — it’s like every talking head took an oath to forget the network was running “JACKED UP!” segments a few scant years ago.) My two favorite Patriots victories were Super Bowl XXXVI (over the Rams) and the 2003 AFC Championship (when the defense beat up Colts receivers so badly that Colts GM Bill Polian convinced the league to change the line of scrimmage contact rules the following summer). I am not naive enough to believe that, before both of those games, Bill Belichick didn’t tell his players, “I want you to beat the absolute crap out of (fill in: Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Ricky Proehl, etc.) and make them remember you the next time they go over the middle … do whatever it takes.”

    Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised if Belichick uttered something more ominous than that. That’s football, a sport in which coaches holler things like, “NOW GO OUT THERE AND KILL THEM!” Do they mean, literally, to murder them? Of course not. It’s just the way these meatheads talk. It’s the language of their barbaric game. Watch this clip, for God’s sake. Normal human beings don’t interact like this. When it came out that Williams (and his players) crossed the line, the Saints became The Scapegoat Du Jour for a league that desperately needed one. In case this wasn’t clear, everyone, the NFL is taking player safety seriously now! Emphasis on the word “now.” It’s a transparent ploy to make up for decades of real negligence, as well as mounting evidence that the next generation of football players (any teenager, basically) can be ruined by one concussion. Meanwhile …

    1. Football is a really violent sport. There is no right way to play football that doesn’t include the words “exert your physical will.” Every current player grew up hearing instructions like “I want hats on the ball” (translation: “Lead with your head”), “I want guys swarming the ball” (translation: “If your teammates are tackling someone, come flying in as hard as you can and join them”) and “Make them think when they’re crossing the middle!” (translation: “Keep hitting the receivers as hard as you can so that they’ll start thinking about you instead of the catch”). I’m sure they heard even more vicious and inhumane instructions than that. So deconditioning them (and their coaches) is going to take time. We’re going to have some hiccups along the way. Hopefully, Gregg Williams’s bizarre “inspirational” speech that was only missing a stretcher and a metal Hannibal Lecter mask will be the biggest hiccup. But I doubt it.

    2. Here’s what I wrote after Goodell belatedly started cracking down (in October 2010): “[He’s] a total hypocrite for pretending to care about the welfare of his players as he’s pushing for an 18-game regular season that would lead to more injuries, more concussions, more collateral damage, more everything. Hey, Roger: If you cared about the welfare of the players, you’d shorten the season to 15 games and add another week of byes. Right? But hey, that would cost owners money. Instead, you’ll continue to position yourself as the Sheriff of Player Safety, puff out your chest, crack down on hard hits and swagger around like you’re Tim Olyphant in Justified.”

    Allow me to add the following: When will Goodell admit publicly that he waited waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long to start cracking down on violence (and the culture behind it), or that he’ll always regret looking the other way as evidence mounted that concussions were infinitely more dangerous than we originally believed? You’re telling me Goodell never watched this Real Sports piece about Chris Nowinski, Andre Waters and concussions in 2007? Come on. The man was three years late. On everything. Maybe that’s not as bad as what Gregg Williams did, but Goodell’s not exactly one of the heroes of this sordid story, either. You looked the other way, Roger. You did.

    3. As Peter King wrote in his column this week, the same league that’s making such a fuss about violence ran a show called 10 Most Feared Tacklers on its own network last week. The truth is, the NFL doesn’t know what the hell it wants. It’s the most successful sports league ever; the value of its franchises has never been higher; its television money haul has never been greater. Only there’s an elephant in the room — and it’s not the Williams tape, Bountygate or even the hundreds of concussion-related lawsuits from former players that are coming. If they change how football is played and turn it into a glorified version of the Pro Bowl, there’s a chance people won’t like the sport as much.

    So what do you do? You pretend you care. You make an example of the Saints. You crack down on the language of your game. You overreact to cheap hits, and you fine players because sometimes they can’t control their bodies at 18 miles an hour in the split second after an opponent ducks his head. You lean on media cronies and convince them to spin stories your way. You hope and pray nobody notices, and that CTE awareness never moves into the mainstream. But meanwhile, your players are bigger and faster than ever, and they’re colliding at speeds at which human beings aren’t meant to collide.

    You’re walking a tightrope, basically. Only one thing can save you: the knowledge that fans won’t really care because of the whole “people just want to eat steak, they don’t care how it’s made” mentality. Sadly, that’s the best thing you have going for you. Before yesterday’s Cardinals-Marlins game, I watched Muhammad Ali (one of my childhood heroes) trembling so severely that he couldn’t throw the first pitch. Poor Ali could only hand the baseball to Miami’s catcher … and he could barely do that. Boxing did that to him. He took too many punches; now he’s a quivering mess. I noticed this, digested it and felt absolutely horrible about it.

    Yes, I will keep watching boxing.

    Which makes me a hypocrite.

    That’s what the NFL is banking on these next few years — hypocrisy, basically — as more stories emerge about the tortured lives of retired players. Many of them can’t walk, sit down or remember anything. Some battle debilitating headaches and gulp down pills like they’re peanuts. A few weeks ago, Jim McMahon confessed in an interview that his short-term memory was gone, then admitted he wouldn’t even remember the interview as he was giving it. You hear these things, you sigh, you feel remorse, you forget … and then you go back to looking forward to the next football season. Gregg Williams crossed the line; he won’t be there. I just wish someone would decide, once and for all, where that line really is.

  14. Vinnie – interesting comment on hockey – while at gym they had the Rangers coach on after that knee to knee hit –

    yeah…. you make some valid points –

    but times are changing – the NFL is now getting sued for injuries that happened – players want more medical coverage – and yet when the league (better late then never) starts placing rules and penalties that say enough – everyone goes you are changing the game –

    appreciate your thoughts – you should submit as a guest writer –

  15. The sport Should Not change based on former players that are now having medical issues as well as Financial issues deciding to sue the league for a decision the that player made themselves. It is a privilige to play in the NFL. These players get compensated accordingly. Players like James Harrison and Ndamukong Suh would have fit perfectly in the NFL 20 to 30 years ago. they Play the game the way it was and is meant to be played. There is no reason to change a good thing. These players are getting labeled as dirty players and are getting fines and suspensions yet all they do is play the game the same way as the LEGENDS before them did! I know this is getting a little off base here but to think that Greg Williams is the only coach in the league that coaches this way is crazy. I’m not saying that all NFL or all football coaches should or do coach like this but we are talking about the highest level of the sport.

  16. Ty Erock. Simmons always seems to have good takes. The “this is the year of internet self-rightiousness” is bang on….not just with sports…

    I’m not defending cheap shots, to the head, knee on knee in hockey, cut blocks…shots that are designed to injure….but….I understand and appreciate that players hit to hurt their opponents. And this is a difficult line to straddle.

    I think Williams went over the line, but there have been many before him. I just think Eagles’ fans should be a little muted in their criticism of WIlliams and the Saints, based on the history of our own team.

    The league has to look seriously at itself. What kind of product do they want on the field? Are they really serious about safety? If so, why allow players to choose their own helmets?. Riddell, Schutt and other companies have had anti-concussion helmets on the market for years. Why not mandate them? (though the recent study by the journal of neurosurgery presents a very interesting case, that while modern helmets provide greater protection against ‘catastrpohic’ injuries, the leather helmets of 80 yrs ago may provide the same (or better) protection againts concussions)

    I dunno. Just think the league is being a little hypocritical dropping the hammer on the Saints, for behaviour they were actively promoting a couple years back.

    Still think the Patriots thing was worse.

  17. Ban Williams for life, fire Peyton & the GM, so nobody else gets any stupid ideas of doing the same. Case closed! Move on! Sick of hearing about it already!!!

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