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Eagles “D” Line Likely To Struggle Early In Transition From Wide-Nine

The Eagles defensive line will be going  back to a standard defensive front this weekend, which will mean a major change for all of them.  No longer will they be able to pin their ears back and get after the passer.  They will have to read what the offensive lineman they’re facing are doing during the play and react to it.

Sometimes they’ll be fighting a double-team, other times they’ll be squeezing the hole by attacking a trapping guard, other times they’ll be shutting down the attack pass rush because they read a draw.

They have to drilled in these reactions until they do them without thinking.  It has to be automatic and without hesitation.  They have to drill it into their subconscious until they react without thinking about it cognitively.  This is normally all done in training camp, but not in this case.  They need to do it in a few days.  Thankfully, many of the players like Trent Cole and Cullen Jenkins have done this before.

Undersized players like Brandon Graham will have a challenge when it comes to taking on double teams and holding their ground.  He won’t be able to simply get off on the ball and get upfield.  It’s ironic that just when Graham was coming off a good game in the wide-nine that they have decided to put it on the shelf in a storage unit.

It will be something new for rookie defensive tackle Fletcher Cox.  The young man has played in the wide nine style during all of his college and pro careers so far, so moving to a standard read and react style will be a major change for him.

“It’ll take me a little time,” Cox explained the media members present and listening. “Just go out and work on it pre-practice. Get an offensive lineman or somebody to work on it with those guys. This is new to me, something I’ve never did. I think I’ll still do a great job at it. I do still expect to be a pass-rushing tackle.”

Cox has the combination of size, speed and power that allows him to be a dominant player in the wide nine, over or under alignment or 3/4 defensive front.

In the wide-nine it’s all attack.  You have one hole to cover and your job is to get as deep into the backfield as you can get regardless of the play.  This requires quickness and speed as compared to size and strength.  Cox was outstanding in the wide-nine because of his speed and quickness.  The wide-nine puts tremendous pressure on the linebackers and safeties to fill the gaps opened by the pass rushing defensive linemen.

In the under and over defensive fronts, it’s a controlled attack.   You’ve got one gap responsibility in the over and under, which means you come off the ball attacking that gap.  At the same time you’re attacking, you must read what the blockers are trying to do to you.

You can’t just get upfield blindly like in the wide-nine, but you must react to the blocking scheme.  On trap plays you must read it stop getting upfield and attack the trapping blocks to squeeze the hole and make the linebackers job easier.  On draw plays, the defensive linemen must react to it and stop running upfield.  On sweeps they must stop the rush upfield, then get off their blocks and help make the play.  You’ve got to play the run when you see it, but otherwise get on the snap of the ball and get to the passer.

There are times in the under and over, when the defensive tackles and defensive ends have to take on double-teams.  Their job in those times is to hold their ground and not let either of the blockers come off and pick up the linebackers.  In fact they are taught to hold the offensive linemen on a double team, so they can’t get off of to stop the linebackers from making the play.

In the 3/4,  the defensive linemen must be able to take on double teams, play two-gap responsibility and for the most part keep the offensive linemen off the linebackers so that they are free clean up and make tackles.

In this scheme, two-gapping is a major part of the job.   Playing two-gap means taking on a blocker and being able to cover the hole on each side of the blocker.  You have to be so big and strong that you can neutralize the block, then toss the blocker either way depending on which hole the running back goes into.  You must be big and strong to do this technique.

Versus double teams you must be able to take on two blockers at the same time, yet not give any ground, so that you free up the linebackers to make most of the plays.  You have to be as big and as strong as an ox to do that.

Cox is the one Eagles defensive linemen who is capable of excelling in the wide-nine, under or over and the 3/4.  in fact he’s the only current Eagles defensive lineman who could excel in the 3/4.  Brasher agrees.

“Oh, yeah. He can play any scheme,” Brasher said. “He’s a big, quick guy. He can play 3-4. He can play the scheme I’m teaching. He can play the scheme anyone teaches. He’s got that much physical ability.”

Don’t be surprised if the Eagles defensive line takes a while to get accustomed to the change.  This is something which should have been done in training camp, not in the 14th week of the season.

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Posted by on Dec 7 2012. Filed under BREAKING NEWS, Defensive Line, Eagles, News. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

98 Comments for “Eagles “D” Line Likely To Struggle Early In Transition From Wide-Nine”

  1. Great article G-Man,
    A key also is how the OLB’s are positioned and react with the change up front along the D-Line. I am hoping to see the LB Corp as a Unit can play closer the the line of Scrimmage and make some plays in the backfield
    I believe Kendrick’s has the ability to do this and look for him and Ryan’s to shine versus the run instead of playing 3 yards behind the DL
    In the base wide-9 where they had larger gaps to protect and would have to take on more OL coming out to them
    I’ve noticed that many OT’ versus Cole would push them outside and then fire out to Block the OLB
    Now with a more traditional scheme the OT will have to engage the DE head allowing the OLB to run to the ball, penetrate and hopefully make more plays on their side of the LOS
    Should be invite resting to watch
    Who is Coaching thesec LB’s
    Is it only Mike Caldwell or does he gave some help
    With Castillo gone

  2. they screwed up the linebackers this year by making kendircks a SAM. u said it way back when G.. the guy is a playmaker and should have been on the weakside. But reid doesnt know defense nor does any of his coaches.the fact that mike caldwell is his lb coach says it all. he’s smart but was a finese below avg LB when he was here.i hope the dline and LB’S dont focus too much on these schemes because these coaches will be gone in approximately two months

  3. Amen, 1977 amen most of us on here said kendricks was a dam weakside LB. But what do we know where just fans lol.

  4. D line may struggle?

    Well, what in the hell are they doing now?

    I remember the fanfare when Washburn and Mudd were hired and the press was treating this like 2 high round draft picks, and i was like…..”what the hell is this?”

    How in the hell can you hire a defensive line coach before his boss?

    That’s an insubordination waiting to happen.

    Did Andy expect Washburn to listen his defensive boss?

    He was calling Juan “Juanita” in his meetings with the D linemen.

    This is the house Andy built.

  5. I really hate to admit it, but Songs has really been right about a lot of things. I still think one of the biggest needs for this team is a legitimate WR. I’m sick of our tiny little players. Here’s a quick breakdown of the top WRs in the league:
    Calvin Johnson – 6’5″ 236 lbs
    Vincent Jackson – 6’5″ 230 lbs
    Brandon Marshall – 6’4″ 230 lbs
    Larry Fitzgerald – 6’3″ 218 lbs
    AJ Green – 6’4″ 207 lbs
    Demaryius Thomas – 6’3″ 229 lbs
    Julio Jones – 6’3″ 220 lbs
    Andre Johnson – 6’3″ 230 lbs

    And then there are our little wee men:
    Jeremy Maclin – 6’0″ 198 lbs
    Desean Jackson – 5’10″ 175 lbs

    Eagles should look at Dwayne Bowe (6’2″ 221 lbs) or Greg Jennings next year assuming they hit the free agent market as they are currently scheduled to do so. Jennings is not that big but I swear he plays 10x bigger than Maclin. Draft either Luke Joeckel or Mant’i Teo in the first round. Gotta find a safety too. Would be nice if they could move back into the first round to grab Eric Reid from LSU.

  6. If Eagles could Trade Asmo or Vick for even a 2nd Round Pick, that would be great, unfortunately other Teams will not pick-up either of these players current Contracts meaning the Eagles will have to cut the chord and release them and then these players are free to make their own deals as a Free-Agent
    Since Contracts are not Guaranteed in Football, you don’t see many trades and you surely will never see where a Team is going to pay a portion of a Contract for player playing for another Team.. It’s just too easy and clean to cut the chord and move on… Just like you won’t see a player Take a Pay Cut to stay with a Team that they feel doesn’t want them anylonger
    Most players think , well cut me then and I’ll sign a new Deal as a Free-agent and get another up front Signing Bonus $$ so it works both ways..
    But when Posters state ok re-work Asmo or Vick’s Deal.. this just doesn’t happen in the NFL.. You don’t live up to your deal or fall out of favor or a new regime doesn’t think your style of play fits their system, then you are a goner and this is how it works in the NFL

  7. Paulman, while I agree, it is possible that Vick could restructure his deal because he knows if he gets cut, there’s likely no way in hell he’ll get anything close to what he’s due next year with the Eagles. Mix that with the fact that very few teams even need a QB and I just don’t think there’s going to be much of a market for a guy his age. I think Vick likes Philly and would like to stay. My problem is that a QB controversy would be an issue throughout the season whenever he or Foles has a bad game.

    • It won’t work.

      You cannot have Vick on the bench as a backup. He generates too much unwarrented adulation.

      Every week would see airwaves and papers arguing. Potential probs in lockerroom……

  8. Possible but not probable. The eagles need to flush the last couple of years to ignite their fan base. AR and Vick are linked in our perception, they will look to wipe the slate clean

  9. Plus a New Coaching Scheme with a new Playbook and Philosophy comes in.
    Most Coaches (especially if it’s a Defensive or Run Oriented first HC which is what the Eagles really need after 14 Yars of AR, are not going to be very enamored or probalby want anything to do with Mike VIck as a QB for their Team./System..
    Remember that the next HC & Staff have no ties to this current club of Eagles and most likley, most new Head Coach’s are going to want to put his own stamp on the Club early and often, and that usually means cleaning the Roster out of the Players that are simply no longer good fits for your Philosophy and Schemes that they plan to run

    • That includes Nick Foles. He may not be the next coaches choice himself. No matter what he does the last 4 weeks. agree?

      • Not really Dag..
        As long as GM Roseman is still around (it was his Draft Choice) than Foles will be given every opportunity to develop (even under a new Coaching Staff)
        Remember, that Vick was sold to LUrie & Co by AR and McNabb who will no longer be around, so now there will be no one left in the Organization that has a vested interest in keeping VIck around while Foles was Roseman’s Draft Pick from last year…

  10. Over to the O-Line for a minute, believe it or not, its not gonna be as bad as anyone thinks going into next year, I dont know if anyone is noticing but that kid Kelly is playing very good at RT, it seems hes getting better every week, i could see our O-Line looking like this next year
    LT- Peters
    LG- Mathis
    C- KelceR
    RG-Herrimans
    RT- Kelly
    thats not a bad starting 5

  11. I think kelly’s a solid backup. i would grab a OT with the first pick in the draft, and look for a center too.. kelce got hurt in the middle of sept. i dont know how ready he’ll be.Andi dont know if a new coach wants to up grade that position.i like him, but hes small fo a center and he can t move anyone off the ball in short yarage( one of the reasons we run so many stretch plays). but the line looks good for next year

  12. I totally concur with G. And I think that they will get whipped because Foles is not ready to get into a shoot out with Freeman. I think he has a higher ceiling than Freeman. But he is not ready for that right now. And I saw the same thing when I saw the stats. Marty would be licking his chops. Bucks by ten or more. I also think the only game they have a chance to win is the Skins game IF the Skins don’t beat the Ravens this week and essentially fall out of the race. The Skins playoff chances are much slimmer than the national media would have us believe. If they lose its essentially over for them. I think you combine Reid’s last home game with ten days to prepare (a situation in which is also undefeated by the way), the Eagles will beat the Skins comfortably if their playoff hopes are slim.

  13. On the draft. Does everyone generally agree that the Eagles choices are crystal clear. Top pick has to be Joekel. We have absolutely no idea what to expect out of Jason Peters. That leaves you with Dunlap, Kelly or Herremans at LT if God forbid JP is just done. Minimally it is highly unlikely he is ever a PB player again much less AP. Most likely case you have Tra Thomas 2006-2008. Good but not great. And that’s only a couple years. You need to jump at the chance to get a replacement because franchise LTs are tough to come by either in the draft or FA. They usually get franchised or cost over ten million bucks if you can get them. You have to be prepared to move on from JP now or relatively soon. Second choice would be DT Lotulelei. That would give you a D line in 2014 of (left to right) Curry, Cox, Lotulelei and Graham. That’s a SB line. I would rather have Joekel but I would settle for Lotulelei.

    If we draft Geno we are absolutely screwed. He is way closer to Alex Smith than Andrew Luck. If thats our pick, you know right away the new guy has no idea what he is doing and we are doomed. Also, Chance Warmack is absurd!!!! If you are going to draft an OG TOP FIVE he better God damned well be a Steve Hutchison or an Alan Faneca, because if he is a Jermaine Mayberry you just TOTALLY blew it as an organization. WAY WAY WAY WAY TOO RISKY!! I will blow my stack if we draft Warmack. There are only two right picks in my mind if we are top five. And even if we hire the wrong coach who wants to go with a 3-4, Jarvis Jones is a terrible pick as well. He is too small and I saw nothing from him last Saturday in the biggest game of his life. You can have him.

  14. Greg Cosell was kind enough to give us his in-depth thoughts on the play of Nick Foles through three starts. “I think there has been a little bit of progression,” said Cosell. “Early on, like a lot of young quarterbacks, he was a primary read guy. He was making predetermined throws, what I like to call, ‘I am going to throw that ball out of the huddle’ where the defense almost becomes irrelevant.

    “I thought this week [against Dallas] Foles had much better pocket command and was much more decisive with his reads and throws and I think the game plan helped.”

    Foles dropped back 35 times and handed it off 26 times for a 57 percent/43 percent split. But there is more to it than run/pass ratio, as Cosell explains.

    “The Eagles transitioned to an offense where they run the ball out of running formations,” he said. “It helped Foles because it dictates defensive fronts and coverages and they become a little more predictable. Most sophisticated blitzes come from sub-packages. If you are throwing out of base personnel, defenses will be in base personnel, and the large majority of NFL defenses do much less in terms of pressures and blitzing from base personnel than they do from their sub packages.”

    Marty Mornhinweg conceded on Thursday that he changed things up to protect the rookie quarterback. It stands to reason that Michael Vick would have benefited from a similar approach.

    Foles is credited with two rushing attempts over four games and has fumbled on both of them. Running is not his game, but Cosell does see some “functional mobility” out of the 6-5 Arizona product.

    “You are moving within the area the size of boxing ring, looking to find a quieter place to throw the football, that’s what pocket mobility is,” said Cosell. “I think there have been plays where you can say he has that kind of functional pocket mobility.”

    Not everything Cosell sees has been positive.

    “He still needs to speed up his drop and delivery. He is still a little deliberate in everything he does,” Cosell said. “My guess is that’s left over from the offense he ran in college where he would take the snap, take one step and throw the ball. He didn’t really drop back in college, he almost exclusively worked out of the shotgun in college. He needs to develop that rhythm, and that’s an offseason thing.”

    Cosell added that Foles needs to improve his arm speed, noting that he has a good arm “but doesn’t always show it.”

    Overall, Cosell has seen some improvement and believes that his last outing was encouraging.

    “If he continues to play as he did against Dallas, then that’s a real positive because one thing you can say watching him against Dallas is that he looked like an NFL quarterback, which he didn’t the previous two games,” said Cosell. “He was calmer and knew where to go with the ball. If he continues to play like that I would imagine they would probably feel pretty good with him.”

  15. OL Outlook for 2013

    Critical that Eagles Re-sign Jake Scott, then let J Herremans/Kelly battle it out for RT and whoever loses the Starting SPot, becomes the top back-up at OT

    Left to Right- Peters, Mathis, Kelce, J Scott, Herremans
    Back-ups – Kelly,Watkins,Reynolds, and a Draft PIck OT

    I believe the Eagles NEed Impact PLayers on Defense and need to spend their first 2-3 Picks on the Defensive Side of the ball
    Jason Peters will be back and rarin to go.. He is an extrememly hard worker who is very motivated to return as one of the Top LT in the NFL..
    I think if Kelley continues to progress, then Herremans could be Trade Bait
    but the Eagles must re-sign Jake Scott and should do this now to lock him in for 2013/2014 if Possible

  16. Paul….Read my draft post. Second I agree and disagree. You cannot count on JP now. You have to plan as if he might be much diminished. Draft Joekel. Clear choice to me. Next, Herremans was less than solid at RT. He did not approach playing up to his contract as one of highest paid RTs in the game. Not sold that he can be your RT going forward. Again, Joekel. If Jake Scott plays in the last four games the way he played in the last two, we won’t be able to sign him. Then we are stuck with Watkins or Herremans. You could sign Scott for a quarter of what Herremans currently makes or half of what Herremans would make after his pay cut when he asked to go back to OG. I think the Eagles should re-sign Scott and release Herremans when they can legally do so. You are not trading him at seven million per year with the half year he just had. I would 1) re-sign Scott, 2) draft Joekel, 3) release Herremans. He is done. He has a serious injury, he is over thirty, he lacks work ethic, he will be getting a pay cut which will make him unhappy and less motivated. He just needs to go at this point. He is an average player going forward. A hugely over paid average player.

  17. Left to right: Peters, Mathis, Kelce, Scott, Joekel. Back ups: Joekel, Watkins, Reynolds, lower pick, Kelly.

    • eagles0superbowls

      Herremans just signed a contract extension and is owed guaranteed money — there is no way he is not in the starting lineup next year
      do you even read GCobb’s articles or just skip to the comment section and start typing

  18. Good Points/Analysis by Cosell there DAG and I think pretty Spot-on
    Anyone thinks a 3rd Rounder is going to step in 3/4 thru the Season after not playing since August and is going to look all that great is nopt being realistic

    Look at Russell Wilsons Progress..
    #1) he’s names the Starter in Mid August so he, his teammates and Offense Coaches now it’s Wilson leading the Team..
    #2) the first month of the Season, the Seahwaks run the ball more, call conservative plays,etc,etx
    #2) now, late in the year after 10-11 NFL Starts, the Seahawks beging to open up the Playbook and become more creative with Wislons who is becoming more comfortable and confident with each passing week

    I am not saying this is going to happen with Foles, but anyone who doesn’t see his potential with his Pocket Calmness & Awareness which many young QB take a while to get and some QB’s just never get (Like Kolb who still doesn’t have pocket awareness)
    I think after these next 4Games against Teams that have something to play for (Bucs,Bengals,Redksins & Giants) are all in the PLayoff Hunt still will be a good measuring stick to see how Foles can handle the job as a NFL Starter
    By the end of the Season, after 7 Games and almost a half-season of Stats,Tape and Production Results, a fair assesement can and will be made about Foles’s Future but until then, analysis/paraylis on the topic is a little premature (even for the Paulman) so let’s see how he finishes the Season

    • @ Paulman it looks like Marty and Andy according to Cossell put him in a much better position to succeed. The question is why wasnt Vick given this same situation. Cossell talks about formations that help negate the blitz. Why wasnt this done 6 weeks ago?

      • @ paulman this is almost criminal what Marty did to 1st McNabb and now Vick. Remember the game plan always changed for McNabb when he would get hurt. “The Eagles transitioned to an offense where they run the ball out of running formations,” he said. “It helped Foles because it dictates defensive fronts and coverages and they become a little more predictable. Most sophisticated blitzes come from sub-packages. If you are throwing out of base personnel, defenses will be in base personnel, and the large majority of NFL defenses do much less in terms of pressures and blitzing from base personnel than they do from their sub packages.”

        Marty Mornhinweg conceded on Thursday that he changed things up to protect the rookie quarterback. It stands to reason that Michael Vick would have benefited from a similar approach.

        • Criminal? come on man get a grip
          “It stands to reason that Michael Vick would have benefited from a similar approach.”…SO what your saying is they should have treated a 10 year veteran QB making almost 20 million a year like a rookie 3rd round QB making his first career couple of starts…Wow

          You see I would have been all for Vick getting no more than 25 pass attempts a game. And thats basically because I just don’t think he a that good of a QB and his career shows it. But for people, who actually think Vick is really good, to say we should not let him pass the ball like the other QBs who are really good just go to show how ridiculous and contradicting they sound.

          • vinnietheevictor

            $$$

          • If you are trying to win football games… Yeah… thats what you do…
            …it’s not a matter of Vet and Rook…It’s a matter of whats working and whats not working
            Their stubborness cost them they’re jobs !!!

            • YES…. its a matter of…. what we have on the field with him…. No oline? Maclin getting killed across the middle…. Djax M.I.A….. why is it so hard for people to understand that we could have been using 2 solid RB’s to help this team out?

  19. Paul…..DL projections. I remember arguing with you before the draft that Cox was another Corey Simon. You wanted me to believe he was closer to John Randle. I think I look much more correct thus far. Curry projects to be a defenite LDE. They will ask him to get to 275 and start on the left by 2014. Not a natural pass rusher. He is better than Brandon Whiting as a pass rusher but celing is lower than Trent Cole. He is a six sack DE. Average. But very good against the run hence LDE that can eat blockers. I believe Graham can be equal to Cole if he stays healthy. Cole is much over rated by the organization and is close to the end of his career. He WAS a very good but not great DE and pass rusher. I think Graham can live up to that. Now that is thrilling for a 5th round pick. Not so much from the 13th pick in the draft. I see Graham in a PB or three but never anywhere near JPP. Cox is Corey Simon like I said. One or two PBs. Never AP dominant player you believed was his ceiling. Now if added Lotulelei to that. A Wilfork/Suh/Ngata type of dominant NT, then that would be a pretty damn good line. In fact best since White/ Simmons/ Brown.

    • eagles0superbowls

      what games are you watching? Brandon Graham consistently lost containment on Tony Romo last week — he was horrible — did you notice how many 3rd downs tony romo turned into 1st downs last week all on his right tackle’s side ( Doug Free played his best game of the year, his only good game of the year)

  20. @JBird so what your telling me is Nick Foles a 3rd round pick with a 5th round grade is a better prospect than Geno Smith a 1st round pick? Geno Smith is more of a Alex Smith type than who he hell is a 3rd round pick Nick Foles like.? I just dont understand. Why wasnt Foles a top 10 pick. I understand Foles could be better than Smith but he sure isnt rated higher coming out of college. Its definetly a upgrade from a 3rd round pick.

  21. doggolden….I am not saying Foles is better than Smith. I am saying you are much better off with Nick Foles and Luke Joekel than Geno Smith and Dennis Kelly/Todd Herremans. Smith is not enough bang for your buck. Joekel and Lotulelei atre five times more likely to be perennial PB/ AP players than Geno Smith. You see what I mean? You don;t draft the best QB. You drfat the best player. Just like you don’t drafft Milliner because you need a corner. Milliner doesn’t go top ten in most drafts, much less top five. You don’t draft for need. Joekel and Lotulelei are BPA.

  22. eagles0superbowls

    Paulman or GMCliff where are some of those Alabama OL projected to go in the draft— because they took the heart out of Georgia in the SEC champ game in the 2nd half by pushing them over like bowling pins — and Georgia’s Jarvis Jones was useless in the 2nd half ( too small ) Howie must have his eye on him, he loves tiny DE

  23. Defense is definitely top priority. but when u have a ten year tackle staring u in the face its hard not to take that guy…i would love Teo in the SAM positon but if hes gone u gotta take joekel.
    i disagree about BPA at this high a pick. I think its the top talent at the positon you need. which is O line and defensive playmaker. thats all i wanna see from this draft

  24. 1977……I promise you Teo is not a perennial PB player in the NFL. I love ND and watch their games and have barely noticed him. He’s a Kuechly. Not a play maker.

    • i can live with the current group of LB’s as long as they move kendricks.. i want the OT..and i dont want them to be fooled by how well kelly is playing right now..ive watched teo alot too. he seems ilke a high volume tackle guy, but its somthing about him being johny on the spot with his interceptions.
      Which tells me his in the right positon most of the time. im so tired of blown assignments i just want a guy who knows where to be on the field

    • eagles0superbowls

      Luke Kuechly is a good football player and if you watched ND and haven’t noticed how good Teo is you might need a new pair of glasses
      Kendricks is too small to play football in the NFL ( Trent Williams of the Redskins put cleat marks on his chest )

      • E0S, i think kendricks can play in the league as a will linebacker not where they have him. i think teo is a good player too. but people get carried away with certain guys. i would say levar arrington was a better prospect than teo and he didnt work out too well. so u never know

  25. To Eagles0SB

    Here are Alabama’s OL Rankings for the 2013 Upcoming Draft
    Both are probably Day 1 Startes by whatever Teams draft them

    1) Chance Warmack – Guard – 6-2″ 322lbs (Rated at #6th Overall Prospect but will probably go in Mid-1st Round to a Team like Rams,Cowboys or Steelers (Rams have 2 1st Round Selections this Draft from their Redskins Trade last year for RGIII Pick)

    2) Barrett Jones – Guard – 6-4″ 305lbs (Rated #28th Overall Best Prospect and probably a late 1st/early 2nd Round Selection — Can see the Giants/Ravens/Texans/Patriots selecting him)

    3) DJ Fluker – OT 6-6″ 335lbs (Rated 51st Overall Prospect and probably a early to mid 2nd Round Selection since OT’s are a Premium for a lot of Teams — Can see the Bills,Jets,Dolphins,Saints,Panthers,Chargers,Vikings and even the Eagles
    selectiing him.. Probably a RT to start out his NFL Career

    • eagles0superbowls

      good stuff, i was impressed with the Alabama OL, I thought they had a few projected high round draft choices

  26. 1977….Yes Johnny on the spot means fundamentally sound. Evan Turner is fundamentally sound too. How is he making out? Teo is just not special at the next level. Not being argumentative ’77. Just sharing what I think. Joekel and Lotulelei are stone cold locks for the PB by their second or third year on forward.

    • eagles0superbowls

      you are blind if you think Luke Keuchly is not succeeding in his rookie season and Manti Teo’s skills won’t work in the NFL—-while believing Kendricks lack of strength and small size will work anywhere in the NFL

    • wow a evan turner reference? He’s actually having a pretty good season. But yeah joekels the cant miss out of the two players. but id still take my chances with teo

  27. Paul… thanks for ignoring me. I apprecuate that. Glad I pay attention to your posts and try to give feedback.

  28. ASKED IF HE has been consciously calling plays to protect rookie quarterback Nick Foles, especially given a revamped offensive line and the gutting of his skill players by injury, Eagles offensive coordinator Marty Mornhinweg acknowledged as much.

    “Sure, absolutely, there’s no question about that, especially early,” he said.

    And this is why i will rejoice when these fools are gone…..

    Why? Why did they not do this for the #1′s over the years? Why? why did they not try this kind of offense for the McNabbs and Vicks? As a white guy… this has nothing to do with skin… just happens to be the 2 starters we’ve had……

    This is the answer to all this crap debate about you know who for the last 2 years or so. Heres your answer about all of that.

    Just to make sis happy……, i would even argue that they got Kolb killed in his 45 mins as our #1 qb. Maybe Kolb could have made it here if they kept it safe for him like they are doing Foles.

    hers an idea Andy… why dont you “put players in a better position”?

    Its a shame….. i dont care who the qb is….. but its a shame that these guys were never given a fair chance.

    quick…. i need a stat to undo the truth Marty just laid on us.

    • anyone with me? if so… give me a “heck yea”!

      • I agree with you and forgot about Kolb. But yes this rule applies for Kolb also. Marty needs to be asked why this wasnt done sooner. If a Greg Cossell whose job is to breakdown film tells you by just running different formations helps the oline and QB why arent you doing this all the time?

      • Heck yea!!!

      • Stevo…you make a good point about Kolb…Why not treat Kolb as if he was a rookie? Considering the short amount of playing time he received over the years…regardless if he was in the NFL for years prior.

        • Only Qb’s that would work under andy Reid are the top 5 or so… the Brady’s, P. Mannings and such. He had seen what Favre could do (have i ever told you guys how much i dislike Favre?) and he wanted to run that here. Its the same reason I dont want a coach from the Pats, G.B. and such to come here. We dont have Tom Brady and i dont want another coach to think we do.

          You guys will laugh but id be fine if we switched head coaches with San D. At least he knows how to run the ball.

  29. eagle0….your blind if you th8ink Kuechly is special. Not looking for solid or even very good with a top five pick. Looking for great and maybe even HOF in twenty years. You do actually HAVE TO HAVE a HOFer or two to win a title.

    • eagles0superbowls

      first of all it is you’re not your— and yes, Kuechly is 100% better than Kendricks — one gets run over and has no business being on the field in obvious passing situations while the other can cover backs and TE in pass coverage and call defenses

  30. I was ignoring you JBird
    I think Fletcher Cox will be a fine player and better than Corey SImon
    .. A John Randle type no, Fletcher Cox will get 6-8 Sacks per Season from the DT Position, and hslp stop the run and clog the middle, but I think he could really excell if he were moved around a bit as DE versus strong Running Teams, Playing over Center, etc,etc..
    Flect Cox has been the best DL on this Entire Eagles Unit in 201
    DT’s hard-word and measureables are a little more difficult to measure that DE’s who primarilty are going after Sacks..

    In the FInal Analysis, I am note sure any Eagles has looked very godo on the Eagles 2012 Team coached/led by Washburn..
    Cox will be fine ..

    • eagles0superbowls

      Cox is the only Howie draft choice that can play — and if the birds go 3-4 with a Darren Perry hire, he can still play

  31. Paul….That was kind of douchey reply. What is your opinion on my other assessments of our young linemen? I enjoy the rebuttal. Also love to hear what you think of my counter point to your Oline assessment. Thats what we do here Paul > we discuss. We don’t post to hear ourselves. I respect your opinion now respect mine. That would be polite.

    • I meant to type that I was “not ignoring” you Jbird
      We all know that my spelling is horrible at times..
      Let me check on your OL Assesment and I will have some thoughts about it

  32. eagles 0…agree that Cox can be good in either 4-3 or 3-4. He is a good player. He may be a little fraile to last a long time and I don’t see greatness in his future. But he was absolutely the right pick and I applauded it. Just don’t think he will be what we were hoping for. Which was basically something in the neighborhood of Jerome Brown.

  33. I have disagreed with Paul on this for months…. I want Cox as our DT. Let him stay put and work as the DT. He has called for him to move outside for months. No thanks. We have enough guys that should be stepping up outside.

  34. Eagles last seven first and second rounders. Brandon Graham may be very good next year, Nate Allen may be servicable if a coach can motivate him but definitely a bust for high second. Watkins, total bust that doesn’t love the game. He will get his pension and not play past his rookie contract anywhere in the NFL. Jarrett, huge bust. Cox, the right pick but not going to be what we hoped for. Still very good player. Curry, solid starting DE. A little disappointing for a second. Kendricks, can be good at WILL with a better LB coach and NFL strength training. Not outstanding but maybe in the William Thomas/ Carlos Emmons zip code.

  35. eagles0superbowls

    To GCobb and/ or Denny:
    If at the introduction to the media of the new Head Football Coach of the Philadelphia Eagles, please ask this question for me :
    On draft day, what will you do if Howie and/ or Jeffery touch the phones to talk trades with current drafts picks trying to accumulate useless future 4th rounders?

    • .
      Actually this staff does better with late picks. Maybe we should get rid of all 1st. 2nd and 3rd round picks and start our draft in 4th round

  36. eagle0……The only trade they make with that first rounder is for a slew of first and second round picks with someone who might be desperate to move up. And even then they will insist on a top twenty pick for this year. But if St Louis wants to give us two firsts and a second for Luke Joekel, I’ll take it. Then we just draft something like Milliner. Whoopie!! I know but think of the future with two firsts next year and two seconds in 2014.

    • As of Today JBird
      The Rams have the 14th & 15th Pick
      And would love LT Joeckel as a Startonh OT
      Do the Eagle their Top Pick for their 2 first Rounders
      And maybe a 3rd Rounder too…

    • You have to give up more than a extra 1st round pick this year to move up in the top 3. We would be dropping 11 spots and just picking up a extra mid #1. Noway. Swap picks give us thier #15 and 2nd round pick and #1 next year will get it done. What did Atlanta give for Julio Jones? ‘.

  37. Read the DT Mike Patterson went to the Hospital yesterday
    Any word on him?? I think for pneumonia or something like that..

  38. I have a Shady question. If Bryce Brown continues to impress would you move Shady for the right price. Im of the belief that RBs are really a dime a dozen unless yor name is Adrian Peterson. I love shady but 5 years 45 million which is 9 million a year for a RB which at 300 carries a year gives you 30,000 a carry. lol. Bryce Brown has 4 year deal worth 2.15 million which is about 500,000 a year which becomes 1600 a carry. So the question is does Shady give you 28,400 worth more a carry than Bryce Brown? Its just a question so no need to get angry. What I say has no bearing on Eagles decisions. lol

  39. Dag we were talking about that on another thread and it’s a very interesting situation going forward, you can’t make Brown the feature back the money won’t work. You could try the Carolina approach but they screwed that up, no easy answers on this one.

  40. Brown potential to become feature back. Shady becomes 3rs down back with restructured contract.

    I can see this happening….Brown (if he stops fumbling) has the potential to become the kind or RB I’ve wanted to see on the Eagles for 15 years. 6′+ 225+ fast and powerful.

    Anyway, I could see this scenario if Brown continues to develop.

    • That would be best case scenario Vinnie although Shady would probably ask out before restructuring.

  41. Breaking it down to $ per carry, things pretty slow at the dag house

  42. I would alternate Series
    MCCoy for 2 Series and then Brown for 1 Series
    RB’s need to few carries to get into a Rhythm so I would not rotate them Play by play which the Panthers have done where neither runner gets into a groove
    If Eagles become a rush first team next year, than have McCoy get his 18-22 Touches (including Screens/pass plays) and then let Brown get his 13-17 Carries/cathches which would give the Eagles 2 RB’s with Fresh legs for the crucial 4th quarters and at the end of the Season as well and could end up extending McCoy career by a year or two in the big picture of things

  43. Next HC has to realize that the best chance of Winning with current Eagkes Defense is to shorten the game, control the Line of Scrimmage by Ruuning the ball with some play action passes, screens, slants and safe passes to the TE
    Goal should be First Downs and keep the chains moving mentality and not this continual try to score on every play and reach for big plays all the time that we have seen for years from AR & MM with no consistent success
    By doing this, you allow the OL to get in a groove with the RB’s, the QB to take what the Defense gives him, to avoid or at least minimize negative plays, turnovers and penalties. This should be the Philosophy if the Eagles Offense moving forward by the next HC & OC
    It won’t be the most exciting Offense in the NFL,
    But it should be much more consistent and better with ball protection
    The Eagles War’s won’t catch as many passes, but they would probably have a better chance for big plays if the Eagles were moving the ball on the ground causing Teams Defenses to put 8 in the box which would allow
    D-Jax, Maclin more 1 on 1 Coverages down the field off of play-action passes

    • Whats funny about what you have written is that I’ve been calling for exactly this very thing for at least 3 years. Now.. please dont misunderstand this… im not saying im Paulman with pics and stuff….. just pointing out that this eagles coach is clueless.

      Heres a q……. I thought Andy figured this out this offseason when he decided to keep 3 running backs…. i thought he got it……. is it that he just cant help himself?

  44. Another great advantage the Eagles would have using a run first, more physical Offense is that their top competition ((NFC East)
    Gas only known one offense from the Eagles for the last dozen years and that is the pass-happy offense of Reid/MM have used so Giants, Cowboys, Redskins and other Teams DC’s and Players would have a new look to prepare for

  45. I am with you Stevo for many of us have wanted this for a while
    (Run Valance) I stated at the end of Preseason considering that Vick was out for most of pre-season, and breaking in a new LT and the fact the Eagles were opening up against some good Defenses with shaky Offenses
    Like the Browns,Cards, Ravens and even Dyeelers that this
    Run first strategy would be a good way to start the Season until Vick was able to find a rhythm which he was never able to do which is why I was not confident even though they started out at 3-1. I was concerned that thus Coaching Staff and many of the players just didn’t get it and then we have seen the wheels fall of and the subsequent crash and burn moves and injuries since then
    This final Season for AR is completely on him and his Dysfunctionable Staff and have a team of heartless players

    • I was wrong…. i stupidly thought that andy would use the strengths of the team move the football… what was i thinking?

  46. @Stevo and paulman, should you adjust the game plan according to your opponent? The Bucs pass defense is bad shouldn’t they attack that?

    • yes. clearly. But after the weeks that Brown just had, they would be wise to keep the D guessing. That has been a major prob here in Philly… teams know we wont keep the run going.

  47. Stevo,
    The next Coaching Staff will realize this
    (Run balance, shortening the game, protecting the Defense until
    They get some real improvement on both sides of the Ball
    For some reason Coach AR and MM just cannot help thenselves

  48. No Chip Kelley and another gimmicky Offense which rely’s on the Spread Schene and pure Speed whic works in College but not in the Pro’s where the Defensive Players are as fast of the smaller Offensive Skill players

  49. Agreed Pman.. i wasnt saying i wanted him.. trust me.. i want nothing to do with that.

  50. Its funny how we love the Harbaughs the Greg Schianos of the world but we discount the perrineal powerhouse, the coach whose offenses are unbelievable in Chip Kelly. We act like us fans are so smart and he would be so dumb. lol Do you think he would do the exact same thing in the pros that he did in college? Do you think he doesnt know guys are bigger and faster? You think we are the only ones that know that? Didnt he turn down the Tampa Bay job? He is very highly sought after. Be careful with the hes a bust talk. Im sure he would adjust his offense in the NFL.

    • I have not said he is a bust. I have said that I want nothing to do with that style. I cannot take this throw throw throw style anymore. I dont enjoy it. It puts too much pressure on the qb-been there, done that. Too much pressure on the D and too much pressure on the WR’s. I want nothing to do with that style of play at all.

      I want a strong D and balance.

  51. Chip Kelley is a very good College Coach as is Steve Spurrier,
    Bob Stoops, Les Miies, the spread system Coaches at TCU,
    Washington State, WVU and countless others,
    But I don’t believe their flash and dash and
    “Spread Offense” concepts translate well to the NFL games where all 11 Defenders are fast, athletic and Strong
    These guys don’t believe in the traditional run game
    And use their QB’s as Runner in half their plays which gets QB killed in the NFL

  52. David Shaw, Gus Bradley,Vig Fangio. those are the style of coaches i want to see. No Chip kelly please. its the hot name that everyone knows.Tell me one team that uses the spread offense( exclusively) in the NFL?
    i Dont want another guy that doesnt believe in a 3 tight end set. or having goaline packages

  53. 1977….i agree 100%.

    I dont want anyone from the Packers or Pats organazations. I say this because we dont have those QB’s. Those teams have a HOF under center. We do not. I want a coach who’s balanced and uses what we have… not dreams about what we dont have.

  54. @ Stevo just listen to yourself you dont want anyone frm the 2 perrineal powers? Packers or Patriots? Let me just say one thing about that. Its funny how Matt Cassel and Matt Flynn do almost the same damn thing as Brady and Rogers when called upon. Maybe the system makes the HOFamer. Maybe not. .But its funny how its hushed up when Matt Flynn throws for 500 yards off the bench then he goes to Seattle and cant beat out a 3rd round midget.Sounds a awful lot like the system that lets you succeed. IMO

    • Kinda like how Feely was able to rip it up here, but do nothing anywhere else?

      Kolb was able to come off the bench and be the first guy to throw for over 300 yrds in his first 2 starts ever and then do nothing in Arizona?3

      Stytem that makes the QB i guess.

  55. Stanford Head Football Coach David Shaw

    Smart. Balanced. NFL experience. Knows college players.
    Winning big games at a non-football power.

    Coaching Career

    Year School/Team Assisgnment
    1995 Western Washington Outside Linebackers
    1996 Western Washington Tight Ends
    1997 Philadelphia Eagles Quality Control
    1998-00 Oakland Raiders Quality Control
    2001 Oakland Raiders Quarterbacks
    2002-04 Baltimore Ravens Quarterbacks/Wide Receivers
    2005 Baltimore Ravens Wide Receivers
    2006 San Diego Wide Receivers/Passing Game Coordinator
    2007-09 Stanford Offensive Coordinator/Wide Receivers
    2010 Stanford Offensive Coordinator/Running Backs
    2011 Stanford Head Coach

  56. David Shaw finally has him own recruits in at Stanford after taking over for Harbaugh..Has a Stud Freshman QB (Kevin Hogan) and a real shot at a National Championship the next 2 Seasons with many players coming back and many players coming into the Program that he’s recruited..
    Will make an excellent NFL HC, but sources say that he wants to continue at his Alma Mater (Stanford) to see things thru doesn;t want to leap into the NFL at this time..
    I give him 2 more Years at Stanford and then will come to the Eagles
    after Dave Wannstadt is fired at the end of 2014

  57. Paulman, you have no sources on this one, common sense source tells me he isn’t about to leave Stanford, a job his father wanted it went to Walsh, shaw was married at the chapel, waited a year for the opening, has a great program at Stanford, gets to recruit, coach some of the best student athletes in the country,, give all that up to deal with likes of djax, drc, it isn’t going to happen

  58. I am close friends with former Stanford President and Alumnae Condeleeza Rice.. We keep in touch on International Affairs as well as Football stuff
    In fact I predict that she becomes the next Commisioner of the NFL as she is very knowledgeable and passionate about Football among other things.. She’s a terrific lady

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