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Thoughts From Eagles-Giants

Rejoice! The End Of The Reid Era

The Philadelphia Eagles treated their fans to one last disgraceful effort to close out the miserable 2012 season.

For about 30 seconds, it looked as though the team would come out and fight for Andy Reid in his final game of the season. The Eagles began the game with a successful onside kick, giving off the false idea that they were interested in spoiling the remaining playoff hopes of the New York Giants.

And it was all downhill from there.

The Eagles were out of this game before the first quarter ended. A pitiful throw by Michael Vick on the opening possession was the first in a series of events that put the Eagles in an instant 21-0 hole. Eager for an opportunity to prove his doubters wrong, Vick badly overthrew Brent Celek, creating an easy interception for Stevie Brown and effectively destroying the momentum that the team had gained from the onside kick.

The Giants returned the Vick interception deep into Eagle territory, and Todd Bowles’ defense offered no resistance as Eli Manning hooked up with Ruben Randle for a touchdown.

The defense was not at all interested in playing hard today. The Giants moved the ball at will throughout the game. They gave up 35 points in the first half alone.

It wouldn’t be a fitting end to the season unless we saw shutdown cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha get burned for one more touchdown. The highly paid corner allowed Randle (a reserve receiver) to beat him for a touchdown on the Giants’ second drive. You just can’t say enough about how badly the Asomugha signing has worked out for the Eagles. In the second quarter, Asomugha was flagged for pass interference on third and goal, which gave the Giants the ball on the the one-yard line setting up their fourth touchdown on the game.

Worst of all was the miserable two-play 54-yard drive to cap the second quarter. The Eagles gave up a pair of big passing plays with under 20 seconds remaining in the half, allowing the Giants to score their fifth touchdown of the game.

It was an absolute embarrassment.

Rejoice! The End Of The Vick Era

Not only did this game mark the end of Andy Reid, but (perhaps even more mercifully) it was the final nail in the coffin for the Michael Vick era as well.

Making the start for the injured Nick Foles, Vick made it clear today that the Eagles should make no effort to bring him back for the 2013 season.

In what could hardly be described as an inspired performance, Vick finished the game 19/35 for 197 yards with a touchdown and an interception.

Vick showed more of the same mediocrity he had played with for the majority of the season. He overthrew receivers, turned the ball over, and was just underwhelming in general.

The quarterback position is going to be a serious question for the Eagles next year. We don’t know what Nick Foles is yet. Maybe he’s a serviceable starting quarterback, maybe he’s a stiff. But it’s clear that it’s the Vick has no business being on this roster in the future. He’s had his time, and it’s over. I don’t know how even the most loyal of Vick’s supporters could argue for him to return. The last two years, we’ve been treated to one of the most frustrating brands of quarterback play I’ve ever seen.

Vick is what he is. His athletic ability is through the roof, and his potential and occasional highlight reel plays are always going to be enough to fool people into believing in him, but at the end of the day he’s just not a quarterback that you can count on to sustain a high level of play and take a team to a Super Bowl.

If you know that a player or coach can only take you so far, why would you want them to be a part of your team? Anyone that argues for a Vick return is one who is shortsighted and content with mediocrity. During his time in Philadelphia, Vick provided the franchise with false hope after a mirage-run of greatness in 2010, and ended his run by sitting on the bench with a miserable disinterested look on his face, pondering where he’ll be playing football in 2013.

Quick Thoughts

  • In two years all we’ve seen from Nnamdi are a bunch of missed tackles, countless blown coverages, and a great deal of finger pointing and excuses. I’ll be just as excited to see Asomugha leave this team as I will be for the departures of Reid and Vick.
  • Antonio Dixon made a nice play to stuff the run on the Giants first possession of the second quarter.
  • Damaris Johnson missed a touchdown reception in the second quarter. Although the pass was thrown a little high by Vick, it was still a catchable ball that Johnson should have pulled in.
  • Colt Anderson led the team in tackles, putting a cap on his solid run as one of the starting safeties over the last month.
  • Things got so bad today that Reid pulled Vick in the second half in favor of third-string quarterback Trent Edwards.
  • The run defense was just gashed play after play today. The Eagles had no answer for Ahmad Bradshaw and David Wilson. The two combined for nearly 200 yards on the ground.
  • Phillip Hunt had a nice sack in the second half. Hunt is a guy who I’d like to see the Eagles give another shot next season. He fell out of the rotation pretty quickly, and I don’t think he got a fair opportunity to show what he could do. Instead, the Eagles and Jim Washburn seemed to think that Darryl Tapp was more worthy of reps in the rotation.

Final Thoughts

The 2012 season has finally been put to rest.

It’s hard to believe how badly this team collapsed this season.

Remember this was a team that started out the year 3-1, with a couple of solid victories over the Baltimore Ravens and New York Giants. At the time, the Eagles were playing hard defensively, and even though the turnovers were still an issue, this looked like a team that was destined for a fate better than 4-12.

And yet, incredibly enough this team wasn’t that far away from 0-16. Not one of the Eagle victories came by more than two points. Imagine if the Browns hold on to the near-Michael Vick interception on the final drive in Week 1. What if the replacement refs hadn’t called the absurd offensive pass interference against the Ravens in Week 2? What if Lawrence Tynes makes his field goal at the end of the Week four match against Dallas? What if Nick Foles doesn’t help the Eagles on a fourth-quarter rally against Tampa Bay? This team very easily could have lost every game this season.

Hopefully Jeffrey Lurie will have learned valuable lessons from the last two seasons, and this franchise will receive a dramatic overhaul in the offseason.

A new coaching staff will need to be assembled, and the majority of the roster needs to be purged.

The good news is that NFL franchises can be turned around within a year. Just look at the Colts and Redskins, who went from holding top five picks in the draft, to emerging as playoff-caliber teams. Yes, these two teams were greatly energized by the incredible talents of Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III, but a turnaround can be accomplished without the elite quarterback talent. Look at the 2008 Dolphins. Miami won just one game in 2007, but bounced back to win 10 games (and the division) in 2008. And who was their quarterback? Chad Pennington.

A team can turn around in one year, as long as there is a competent general manager pulling the strings…

Howie Roseman hasn’t given anyone any reason to believe that he’s capable of getting the job done, and yet all indications are that he’ll be the architect of this team’s future. He’ll be selecting the next head coach, and he’ll be in control of a top-five draft pick, the highest selection the Eagles have had since 1999.

The search for the next head coach is on, let’s hope Howie is up the challenge. on Facebook

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Posted by on Dec 30 2012. Filed under BREAKING NEWS, Eagles, News. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

184 Comments for “Thoughts From Eagles-Giants”

  1. Zero confidence in Howie….he needs to be replaced…Heckert did well with Cleveland and Grigson with Indy…..we got left with the garbage

    • Yeah, that’s why Heckert is getting fired in Cleveland, too. He is just as bad as Roseman. Which one of his drafts were any good? That’s what I thought!

  2. Well Guys…tried to tell ya…Andy have finally broken this team. irreparable.

    Well seen it coming over 5 years ago so..I’m out!

    I’ll keep my eyes on the team but I can’t take it anymore after supporting this team for over 3 decades.

    I’m going over to the Skins and support a winning organization… Not a team that counts mediocrity as success.

    To hear people gushing over this Loser Reid as if he won 4 Superbowls make me sick.

    Snyder had so much passion he attempted to buy players for years and no expense was too high…even in losing efforts.

    he mortgaged the house with a bold move for RG3….and now there’s a great chance he may end up with a few SB’s before RG3 is done.

    Go Skins….

    Sorry, I can’t hand this losing legacy to my Sons….

    We’re burning all Eagles apparel tonight an will purchase Skins apparel going forward.

    Just ordered an RG3 Jersey and will not support the Eagles again.

    Every year we got an excuse opposed to the team addressing the issues we all knew existed.

    The “THEM” knowing more than “US” stance buried this sorry ass organization and now they expect the fans to buy into Howie Rose woman.

    I’m done..

    Go RG3

    • You were never an Eagles fan then. If you tell me you are rooting for the Skins tonite against the Cowboys I am all in. Hate the Cowboys. But if you are cashing in on the Birds you are a fraud.Never a true fan

    • Songs you have been a fraud from your first posting on GCobb… basically cried when McNabb was sent to the skins and declared yourself a ‘skins fan then….so this is no suprise.

      As a fanbase we are much better off without you “on our side” anyway. Your son’s have been taught lessons that will last a lifetime, that loyalty means nothing and that you jump to any flashy looking tramp if you feel like it. Truth be told, those boys never stood much of a chance of learning how to be a fan from the likes of you, maybe they should look to rooting for a soccer team because Dad surely knows nothing about football and demonstrated it way too many times on GCobb.

      Goodbye loser.

  3. Don’t agree with your assessment of Anderson. He is horrible in coverage and makes tackles after 10 yard gains. He isn’t very good. Also, Jamar Chaney got dominated at the line of scrimmage. We are 2 safeties, one corner, and one linebacker short of a decent defense.

  4. Owner Lurie just called and wants me to fly to Philly for the 11am
    Press Conference, I told him I didn’t have a Suit and that I needed a haircut etc, he said don’t worry about it and he’ll take care of it while flying up
    In his Private Plane..

  5. It’s gonna be tough being an Eagles fan moving forward. We r the new cellar dwellers. lol/smh

    i am an idiot.

  6. Bye Songs … You won’t be missed as an eagles fan. Your constant bitching and crying are absolutely sickening.

    Have fun with the redskins you fucking loser

  7. Now its clear why the eagles were so flat with no fight….Eskin reports Reid was told Friday he would be fired…..Lurie is holding a news conference tomorrow morning to announce it

  8. Reuben Frank also reported that Reid was told he would be let go and that look for Eagles to make a BIG NAMe coaching hire.

  9. Wow its coming out right now. Its being reported that defensive players were at war with other defensive players. They werent interested in turning around season. DRC is being mentioned as one of them. There were offensive issues also. Its being reported that Vick would stay late nights working with Reid and other players werent interested in staying. This team will be gutted.

  10. Dr. Bridge..umhhmmm. I mean Navy?

    Looking back…Do you think I had reason to bitch and cry?

  11. Songs, you are the best, have fun with the redskins, I will save your place when the eagles are relevant again, peace

  12. Navy, you miserable piece of garbage, songs zapped you from here and you are never welcomed back

  13.’s Ian Rapoport reported Philadelphia Eagles coach Andy Reid learned from owner Jeffrey Lurie on Friday that he would coach his final game with the team on Sunday against the New York Giants, according to two sources. The Eagles are expected to formally announce Reid’s firing Monday.

    The Eagles “strongly” denied Reid has already been fired.

  14. Per (my previous post)…

  15. Songs, glad to see you go. Not once have you ever posted anything insightful. Just bitching and moaning. And since when are the Skins a winning organization? Haven’t even won a division title since the 90s.

  16. The most reverend songs probably the most insightful poster on gcobb, he will be back after foles starts to really flourish, but not before 20 hail marys and a personal pledge to Jake as his football junkie on gcobb, Godspeed to reverend songs

  17. Say it btc24 !!
    I lay this entire bad 14yr experiment at Lurie’s feet; should never have been allowed to continue after the initial 6yrs. Sound organization starts at the very top. Am somewhat optimistic because there is no more Reid control/self-will with an unbalanced offensive plan, who let historically good defensive play go out the door, nor would he demand excellence from assistant coaches and players. Lurie, get busy…. and bring in real football minds!!!!!!!!!!!

  18. I have no choice but to root for the Eagles. I was born, raised, and educated in Philadelphia. It would be unnatural to not be an Eagles fan. I have missed only about 3 home games in the last decade. This is my team much more than it is Mike Vick’s, or Andy Reid’s. If you decided to start rooting for the Skins now, then you were never a real Eagles fan. Real Eagles fans have no choice.

  19. Take MM with you as well Big Red!

  20. Mike Mccoy is nothing .. Peyton Manning is the offensive coordinator of that team

    • How do you explain Tim Tebow led offense going two rounds in the playoffs. Tebow stinks. How do you explain McCoy taking Jake Delhomme into a Super Bowl against the Pats. Delhomme’s best years were under the guidance of McCoy. Granted Peyton is great but that offense is a mix of McCoy’s schemes and Peyton’s brilliance. McCoy is a brilliant offensive mind. Revamping 2 entirely different schemes and getting two AFC west crowns. I would take McCoy.

      • philly, don’t waste your breath, he’s clueless, & if it isn’t a big, sexy name, he has no idea WTF he’s talking about. McCoy, & Fangio are my top choices!

  21. Your last paragraph scares the living you know what out of me. Howie and architect in the same sentence. I have zero faith.

  22. You have a choice, you exercised it, others may exercise their choice different than you , this franchise deserves continued loyalty from no one, if songs wants to check out I don’t blame him

    • You are right we have choices. But when the Birds turn it around stay with the Skins. If you don’t that’s called a front runner which translates into “not a fan”. If you just root for winning organizations then be a Pats fan or GB or Giants. It’s like those fans that became Bulls fans because of MJ or Lakers because of Kobe or even worse those cock roach Cowboy fans who have lived in this city all their lives but are Cowboy fans because”my Father watched them” or they were on the National Game every week or some other lame ass excuse. People who never lived in or been to Dallas in their lives. Frauds

  23. Jason Avant was posed this question following the 42-7 loss to the Giants, which marked both the end of the season and Andy Reid‘s run as head coach of the Eagles:

    Are there not enough character guys on this team anymore?

    “I would say that’s true,” Avant replied.

    The veteran receiver tried to cut himself off several times during his session with a group of reporters before getting too critical of his teammates, then pressed on. He was one of a handful of Eagles that couldn’t hide their emotions any longer. Some of the guys that line up beside them just aren’t cut from the same cloth.

    “It’s difficult because me, I leave it all out on the field and I give it everything I got,” said Michael Vick. “Sometimes I wish I could play other positions, but I can’t.”

    Most of these kind of thoughts were kept out of the public during the Eagles’ 4-12 campaign. But now one of the most disappointing seasons in memory is over, and sweeping change is about to hit the organization. The head coach, the star quarterback, and countless others could be moving on. No point in holding back now.

    “One thing that I do know we need are guys that buy into the system, whether it’s Coach Reid’s system or anything else,” said Avant. “I’m hoping and praying it’s Coach Reid but if that’s not the case, you still need to have the players to be responsible and also accountable, and not to allow the amenities of the NFL to distract them from what the game is really about, which is playing hard for the team, playing hard for the city of Philadelphia, and I think that was part of the distraction.”

    Now that Reid is being removed from the equation, the question becomes: How much of the recent dive is on him? Did the team look lifeless for much of the season (and certainly on Sunday) because they had tuned him out?

    “I don’t think it’s the coach. It might be due to other reasons — record, playing time, things like that,” said LeSean McCoy. “I don’t see guys quitting because of coach. He’s a coach where you want to play for him. He’ll find something each week to motivate you.”

    Many pin the problem on a dilution of the Reid culture as a result of poor drafting and the need to import players via free agency and trade. Nnamdi Asomugha and Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie — part of the big 2011 offseason splash that fell well shy of expectations — are two examples of big moves that have yet to pay big dividends.

    “I wouldn’t put [the downfall of Reid] on the free agent class that came in but I really wish that the class came in and won it all,” said Asomugha. “And the second year we’re not all here that were here last year, but for the team to have a worse record than we did that first year just doesn’t make any sense to me.”

    Added Rodgers-Cromartie: “From a personal standpoint I take it very personally because you look at yourself and know what you can do and you go out there and are not as productive as you can be. You first have to look at yourself and can’t blame nobody else.”

    Avant opined that relying on players who are not homegrown is OK; it just has to be the right players.

    “It just depends on doing good research,” said Avant. “It all depends on the type of player you bring in.

    “When people don’t go as hard as they ought to or they lay down and things like that, it’s a reflection of the players and the type of individual that you have out there. I think it’s one of the things that has to be corrected for next year. There has to be a total buying in by the players for the coaching staff.”

  24. looking forward to a nice draft and a young coach with some new ideas. I will miss Andy, but I do ee good things next season. This team has playmakers, we just need some different coaching schemes to utilize them.

  25. Russel Wilson broke Peyton Mannings rookie TD record and only has 10 INTS.. GMCLIFF said he wouldnt even make an NFL roster…

    • Russell Wilson, is having a storybook year, that no one could have predicted. But this doesn’t make you a genius Llarrwd. The majority of your assessments of draft prospects we’re wrong.

      How did Michael Floyd this year?
      Jerel Worthy?
      Devon Still?
      Stephen Gilmore?
      Michael Brockers?
      Did they draft a Safety in the first Round?

      Thats cool, you can bust my stones on the fantasy year Russell Wilson is having but………recognize, that the majority of what I predicted would happen came to fruition. And I still predict, Wilson’s play is an aberration, more so than skill.

      If your gonna brag, and tell the story of how GMCliff didn’t like Russell Wilson, make sure you tell the whole story…Because you came up a lot more short than I did fella.

      12 of the 16 players I wanted are starters………..
      2 made the team and we’re injured during Pre-Season……
      To tell it like it is….I was on the money more than most including you…

      • And I was also right about Vontez Burfict, being an OLB, not a MLB……Lets talk about that…………He made an NFL Team, and IS STARTING…

  26. I guess gmcliff was wrong, just like all you will be wrong about foles

  27. Youre still talking about that rookie back up white quarterback with the broken hand.. You racists are crazy.. Foles is a loser always has been always will.. We need to draft a black quarterback.. end of discussion

  28. This f^#@ing team needs to be nuked, & some of you @$$clowns are still talking about black & whie, Foles & Vick! Give it a f^#@ing rest already! Racist, ignorant, classless, idiots!

  29. Timely dcar rant

  30. Transparently he was not serious, but deep down like the caste of you losers he was damn serious

    • He was serious. He’s one of the biggest racist, Vickpologists on here. Why is everything about color. It’s a smell test with me. If a player smells like a 4 day old fish, he stinks. I could care less if he is the red hulk. It pisses me off, that people care more about rooting for a player, than their supposed team, & always make their arguments with racial overtones, & comments. I’m talking about both sides here. IDIOTS!!!!

      • DCar there was a cat on here this week insulting everyone with idiotic racial talk and not one word from anyone larrwd makes a completely sarcastic post and you rip him hard. Come at everyone like that and its not an issue, are you reading this jakedog?

        • Nah big it’s always the same people doing the same race baiting on here. Semantics and saying its joking wont cover for em. I’m just plain sick of it.

          • I rip everyone equally on here. I have ZERO arterial motives. I guess you guys miss all of the times I get on Vinnie, for taking his Vick hate to ridiculous levels? So don’t give me that f^#@ing BS! I hate racists of all kind, & if you can’t understand that, I don’t give a rats @$$ what anybody thinks. I am a man of mixed races, so don’t come at with your racial garbage. I know first hand of racial ugliness of all kinds. So don’t talk to me about $#!t you don’t understand!

        • Don’t hold your breath waiting for a credible explanation. There won’t be. Hypocrisy at it’s finest. It’s only racist if you bring up race and you’re black.

  31. Any true die hard Eagle fan ,that bleeds green ,can’t change to Washington ,the jints or god for bid wear the star.I know this sounds drastic but It is what it is.If Yo is in your vocab,and you love gravy not sauce you’re at the Linc because it was bred into your DNA …I truly don’t give two shits about those so called fraud fans that would change jerseys like s–t stained underwear.If you can look at Jerry F–kin Jones reconstructed face without being repulsed ,or coughlin and his antics and the injuns who represent washington and all the buffoons in DC then get the hell out of Philly.Jeffrey Lurie lost his buddy ,his wife ,his scapegoat and now the full bright light is on his wine soaked ass.Do the right thing and get Howie and Andy packing and start anew get to divorce yourself Jeffrey from those you purge ,Giveunto Eagle fans that same emancipation ..we deserve better ,and times now yours!

  32. We missed the window for drafting a great black QB, they all got drafted last year. If you want to root for a team with a great black QB you will have to join Songs and become a Skins fan.

    If you are like me and grew up hating John Riggins and Joe Theismann and wishing for Darrell Green to lose his speed and retire, then it’s impossible for you to ever root for the Skins – or any other team. It’s a Philadelphia thing… if you live in some other city you might not understand. There is no changing who your team is…

  33. I hate the giants worse than the skins.. No I think Foles deserves a shot.. I would consider Geno Smith if we had the chance..

  34. Out of all the NFL teams why would you root for a team from the NFC east!! That is so lame,go be a Packers fan they have Rodgers and at least theyre not a hated rival!!Finally AR is gone,wont have to see split back formation shovel pass at the goaline anymore,or passing out of the shotgun when its 3 and 1,or calling a playaction pass when its 3rd and 10 or more and my least favorite of all time calling a pass play on first down that goes incomplete and the running the ball on 2 and 10 or longer!!Thats just stupid playcalling that Iwont miss!Thanks for what you tried to do I will never forget the hight and lows,it was fun and entertaining for a long time but man am I happy youre gone!

  35. Let me make this clear…I’m not a front runner….I’ve been an Eagles fan since my youth ok?

    I’ve been told since then that the Eagles will never win a Superbowl because they’re satisfied just beating Dallas.

    I fought against it for years but the opponent fans began to make since when our brass starting bragging about being the Golden Standard after winning absolutely nothing.

    It was stated that the rest of the NFC would replenish from nothing and win Bowls while our team stayed content with being competitive.

    They were and are right.

    Now, Reid is a gonna, you guys expect Roseman who had a hand in the last 3 drafts to help bring us a championship?

    Now, if they hired someone like Cowher who would command authority in spite of Rose woman then I would probably have hope…but we all know that will not happen.

    I don’t have another 30 years to wait for this pathetic organization to win it all…and if they didn’t win with Dawk, Trot, Douglas, Westbrook, and the best QB in Eagles History Mcnabb…what makes you think they’ll win now the team is left with no heart?

    Reid wasted a team that would have won at least 2-3 chips if another coach was coaching those teams.

    They haggled with the heart of the team in Trot while he was in his prime and because of that Jerivius is still running…remember that Tampa Bay game in Philly?

    That happened because of Reid and the front office.

    Remember the midget manning manhandling our receivers..that was because Reid who said the receivers were fine.

    It pisses me off even today because I knew how good those teams could have been if it wasn’t for Reid’s incompetence.

    You think we’ll ever have that nucleus on one team again?

    We should have tanked last season when the draft was stacked with franchise QB’s …but no.

    We had to do Fool’s gold only to miss out.

    Now the futility have come to a head and the record is indicative of this organization there’s no franchise QB when we’re picking in the top 5.

    You guys can continue to buy this BS if you want….we’ll build enough again only to haggle when it matters.

    That’s what Philadelphia Eagles Organizations do.

    I’m being real.

    Go RG3

    • Wrong. You are a Fraud and a Front Runner. No question about.

      No question also that the fanbase is better off getting rid of loser-fan’s like you and your family. Good riddence, I am sure that the ‘skins fans will soon see what a real loser and fraud that you are.

  36. Reid gave us some really good years. It’s definitely time for him to go but I wish him all the best. I think this team needs an offensive minded coach with the way the league has evolved over the last few years. A lot of defensive minded coaches have not had much success (Mike Singletary, Romeo Crennel, Dennis Allen, etc).

  37. Thats how I felt about the Phillies and If I wouldve left I couldnt of celebrated the 08 parade,I wouldve missed out;but I stuck it out thats what being a fan is about.

  38. It wasnt all the organzations fault,you need to catch the breaks to win titles and unfortunately we really never had a David Tyree catch off his helmet or a James Harrison interception at the goaline returned for a TD or Santonio Holmes somehow staying inbounds on a game winning catch.Thats the messed up part about it.

  39. philly..what are you talking about? the Phillies won in 1980. Sixers won in ’83

    Phillies rebuilt and won again…How in the hell you compare the Phillies to the Eagles.

    This loser ass team let Reggie White walk who get a chip with Green Bay,

    No comparison.

  40. Boo hoo hoo. We haven’t won a Sb yet. I wanna win more than anyone I know but I am not gonna trade who I am and what I have lived for te past 40 years so I can say my team won. That’s bullshit and I could never cheer for the redskins. Fuck RG3 fuck Romo Fuck Eli. I wanna win but I won’t trade my soul as a fan to be associated with a winner. I either win green or don’t win. My brother in law is a skin fan he makes me sick to even look at. Also since when are the redskins winners in the last 2 decades? I call bullshit!!

  41. Songs, you sound like such a little baby dude. Shouldn’t you be watching your new team right now? Get the hell outta here.

  42. Songs we don’t have time for you to try to whine and defend yourself to true green Eagle fans you pack it in on your wife because after giving you children she put on a few pounds ? This isn’t about anything but character ,you don’t have any and in fact you most reflect what ails this franchise guys who just wears a green shirt and. Think they represent the Eagles.Im sick of your lame ass justification,just go ,wreck yur kids minds ,and don’t be shocked when they root for the flavor of the year ,I’d rather bleed Eagle green,kick the fucking cat when we lose and have passion running through my veins.I cried when we finally made it to the Super Bowl ,and flew my 78 year old dad and 15 year old son ,with me to Jacksonville.when the final calling comes that will rank up there as my life’s top five greatest experiences.i pity you’ll never she’d those real tears of joy …you probably fake orgasms ..poor fool…happy fucking new year ..loser..

  43. Fellas..I’m checking out how the Skins is wearing them down with the run which is destroying the Cowboys ability to pass rush. That’s how you take the heart from a team…Mano on Mano..

    I love good Football which we were denied so long.

    Feel me?

  44. What play this is what an NFL team look like huh?

    The Skins are for real.

  45. I bet you were calling Shanahan and his son the worst coaches in the world when they were calling McNabb a lazy player that couldn’t learn the playbook. And when Vick was running like superman all over the Skins in the 59-28 beat-down you were probably thinking about becoming a Cowboys fan…

  46. RG3 is the truth!!!!!!!

    I know Randall is proud!!!

    He’s a damn machine…….Shanahan is a Superbowl winning type coach.

    What a difference a real QB with an offensive line makes.

    The playcalling is off the chains.

    My whole family will don RG3 shirts during the playoffs.

    This shit of a team in Philly can learn a few things from Snyder and crew!

  47. D’angelo Hall is a real that to these clown ass corners in Philly..

    The damn keystone cops who can’t tackle air.

  48. physical football…stomping the damn cowgirls….love it

  49. We’re looking at a legend in the making…


    Nick Foles is ass…

    Hail to the Redskins!!!!!

    • lmao!!….Songs cut it out! I still need you here to check these fake punk-ass fans. Don’t give up hope yet. Let’s see how Lurie reponds. I personally belive the recent success of the Phillies, has made him realize his club isn’t all that. And clearly not the most successful in this city. At least the Phillies and Flers go hard. I’m feeling you on the RG3 love. I laughed when many clowned the skins for doing what it took to get him after the the other stud(Luck) was taken. BUT I WILL NEVER BE A SKINS FAN. …LOL

  50. Put the pig nose on asshole …in fact have the family picture done for next Xmas …song and his piglets ..

  51. 5 Player acquisitions were Cancers to this Team over the last few Seasons
    It started with tge signing of Asante Samuel (selfish player)
    Then the Re-Signing of D-Jax after he quit the Team last year
    The Signing of Asmogoah
    The Trading-for DRC
    The Signing of Jason Babin

    Forget the Questionabke Coaches that were hired as well
    These 5 Players have led to the demise of the Eagle Franchise as we once knew it pkain and simple
    These clowns did not represent what it is to be an Eagle and to
    Play for the City of Philadelphia

    • paulman lets not forget the questionable coaches because the single worst decision that destroyed his locker room was bringing in Washburn we can sit back and blame players but guess what, the infighting that killed this defense started with that clown.

      • no… lets rewind the tape… andy goes 16-16 his first 2 yrs.. then goes 12-4 AND HE GETS FULL CONTROL OF THE FRANCHISE. that was a mistake as Andy has never picked players in his life

  52. Resigning Djax will prove to be a huge mistake.

  53. Songs never sang the Eagles fight song, he only sang the blues. The future looks even brighter knowing both Reid and Songs will be gone!

  54. Songs, RG3 is a beast but if Foles had RG3’s stats from tonight, you would kill him. Why are you still on this site? Go join the Skins’ chat boards and bitch and moan like you do here so you can show all of them how morose you are.

  55. What’s worse having no QB’s or having Tony Romo as your QB damn he is a choke artist!!!!

    • For me, the only thing that beats a Dallas loss is an Eagles win. It’s awesome how Romo never let’s me down! The guy folds like a wet paper bag in any game the means anything.

  56. btc…I’ll stay here…just to remind you guys what a real NFL winning team looks like…
    I know it gets a little foggy looking through tainted green glasses, so I’ll be here to inject reality so some of you guys can actually see the light.

    I’ve been telling you apologists for a long time ..the difference between you and I?

    I’ve finally seen the light.

    Won’t be fooled again….

    Its a blessing admiring football again….Andy took that from us.

    • You let Andy’s stop over, compared to decades of being an eagles fan, take that from you but I haven’t.

    • A winning team? This is there first winning season since when?…..when was the last time they APPEARED in a SB. It just shows you what a fraud you are.Please stay with the Skins.Frauds like you we don’t need. Quick question though are you actually a Skins fan or an RGIII fan. Careful your answer will expose you.

      Oh and Seattle will bounce their asses this weekend.

  57. Big Lion..that’s the truth…but it’s good to see a true competitor like RG3 man the position.

    He brings a special skill set to the NFL….

    fellas stop the cellar dwelling…this team is worse than that pathetic Cardinals..

    Want some truth?

    This same Cowboys team that played 2nite would have blew us the hell out 39-7

    • “This same Cowboys team that played 2nite would have blew “us” out.

      Who is “us” The Eagles? But you are not a fan so why would you care? Aren’t you a Skin’s fan? so who is “US”? you keep proving over and over what a fraud you are. You just keep shooting yourself over and over again. What I suspect is you are not a Skin’s fan but an RGIII fan.

  58. Maybe’s deeper than Andy…he just tipped the scale…”no pun intended”.

    It’s the owners.

  59. A few closing thoughts to the season ….we’ve put in the rear view mirror.A new cultural environment of accountability and culpability will replace this current acceptance of a head coach taking bullets for players that show no heart ,here’s a guy that constantly has your backsides and you go send him off with a disgraceful effort ,take the uni off ,its a privilege to wear and represent this great city ,and you need move on, we are building anew and you don’t fit …thanks for zilch ,take your money you stole and see ya..there’s a few high character guys that are true Eagles and they’ll be the core guys ….Bring character guys who sell out for the coach and buy into a system they believe in.Its obvious the moronic assistant coaching carousel bred this cancerous decay of our once proud football team…Take with you any fans that don’t have the DNA gene that makes Sundays green ,and to,all of us who have nothing but love for our team ,let’s welcome a new year ,a new regime and a new winning culture…we will welcome the song FLY Eagles FLY …E A G L ES …with passion soon once again…we deserve and reserve the right …

  60. It’s haggle and ship out the guys with heart..and replace them with players with no heart.

    Expect a SB?

    Don’t think so.

  61. I think Andy Reid was not respected by this group of players. He brought in a group of mercenaries that didn’t take pride in doing their job. When you saw Cullen Jenkins getting in Andy’s face on the sideline you knew things changed.

  62. @songs, for real man I can’t be mad at you. I mean I can’t go that route but this shit do start to wear on you a little bit. Always losing and shit it takes it’s toll. But maybe before I die the Eagles will win something go green. At least we got the fourth pick in the draft. Saying shit like that lets you know your team is ASS right songs LOL.

  63. This cat Songs is dead to me… I won’t read any post with his name over it. You guys should stop addressing comments to him. Who the hell cares what jersey his family wears. LOL

  64. Diddy..have you ever seen an Eagles team as soft as this non tackling host of bitches on the Eagles defense?

    Don’t 4 get what Sheldon said before he left.

    Sheldon laid the wood and the team haggled with him then brought in Asante Samuel and paid him top dollar…a “me” player that refused to tackle.

    Sheldon told us back then that players are being brought in that are not Philly type players…was he right?

    Dawk kept a foot in players ass..the team she their respect by leaking he lost a step to the media and haggled with one of the greatest Eagles to wear the uniform. Could you imagine the Ravens doing that to Ray Lewis?

    You guys better wake up.

    This organizations will never change.

    Howie is heading up the team going forward.

    Feel good now?

    I’ve been right up until this point and believe me……Rose Woman will destroy what’s left of this pathetic team.

  65. Can’t be mad at songs one bit , glad, really glad his redskins put the cowboys out, songs is delusional with emotion against a franchise that has ripped the passion out of its ardent fan base, I look forward to one more chance of the eagles making it right , if not then I will become the fan of every team that plays against the eagles

  66. Jake won’t take long.

  67. So long as Jeffrey lurie owns the eagles

  68. Nnamdi is my least favorite eagle. He brings back memories of Izell Jenkins.
    He is the weakest link.

  69. Bla bla bla… songs is a skinsfan now? See ya dude… youll be back when rg3 goes down. Changing teams? Screw that. Bye.. bye… reid vick songs nnamdi. I missed the game. I was at a indoor waterpark with my kids.


  71. A new Jersey paper said the eagles are interested in O’brien Gruden and Kelly… Who would you take out of those three.

  72. Its all an illusion. RGIII goes 9-18 for 100 yards and is a hero, a warrior, magical. He was terrible but the rest of his team played well, the defense and a stud RB Alfred Morris. Just amazing how things work.

  73. Position by position the Redskins roster vs the Eagles and you tell me where the Redskins overwhelm the Eagles when both are healthy.Then you compare the coaches and tell me who puts the players in better positions to succeed, thats the difference.

  74. **Eagles News**
    -Andy Reid was fired on friday but announcement will be made at a noon press conference Monday.
    -Sources say that Jeff Lurie’s list of candidates for the Head Coaching job include Chip Kelly, Bill O’Brien, Dirk Koetter, Greg Roman, Bruce Arians, and Josh McDaniels

    My Thoughts- I like this list. It was time for Andy to go. And I especially like that he left the Eagles at the same spot that he got them with a top 5 pick and the worst team in the nfc east. If they would have won that game yesterday, they could have potentially been picking 8th or 9th in the nfl draft. Now we officially have the 4th overall pick not 3rd. But that list is promising. I like Bruce Arians and Bill Obrien. Both winners. Vic Fangio is another guy I’ve been mentioning. Lurie and Roseman have to make the right decision. I see a big name coming, their gonna make a huge splash. Lurie wants this team back on the front page for something positive for a change.

  75. My wish list (not in any particular order)

    Vic Fangio, Mike McCoy,Jay Gruden,Tom Clements,Brad Seely,Mike Pettine,
    Dirk Koetter,Gus Bradley or Winston Moss


    December 30, 2012 – 11:39 pm

    5 Player acquisitions were Cancers to this Team over the last few Seasons
    It started with tge signing of Asante Samuel (selfish player)
    Then the Re-Signing of D-Jax after he quit the Team last year
    The Signing of Asmogoah
    The Trading-for DRC
    The Signing of Jason Babin

    Forget the Questionabke Coaches that were hired as well
    These 5 Players have led to the demise of the Eagle Franchise as we once knew it pkain and simple
    These clowns did not represent what it is to be an Eagle and to
    Play for the City of Philadelphia


  77. I did have Vick on this List originally too.. But after thinking about it, I do believe he at least worked his ass off and tried to become the “Pocket-QB” under AR/MM system that they wanted him to be, but unfortunately, Vick doesn’t have the mental part of the game down to be able to handle this Offense on a consistent basis ..Some of his Comments surely didn’;t help about the Eagles Offense being a “Dynasty” or that “They couldn’t be stopped by any NFL Team”, but lots of players say stupid things some times.. I am not a fan of Vick QB style and have stated so many times, but I do think he at least tried and was a solid Teammate that the others that I did list..

    • i disagree that he tried to become the pocket qb… and if he did try that then he just doesnt know how to count to 5

      after what he said yesterday i dont think vick is a great teammate or leader at all. for him to say something like his teammates dont have heart and not be accountable for another awful performance is unacceptable and does not demonstrate leadership abilities.

      i would never wanna ball with a qb that wont take it on the chin

      • Jason Avant basically said the same thing, and he was taking it on the chin week after week, he even tried getting guys together after practice but like Avant said they were busy enjoying the amenities of the NFL.

      • No one is harder on Vick than me and when I first heard him I blasted him. I think I was wrong and I think you are too. He called out the selfish cancers on the team. Maybe he isn’t the kind of leader to have cured the cancer earlier the way Dawkins or even 5 did but he spoke honestly about these clowns

    • For someone to say Vick is not worth mentioning, I notice that you have mentioned him in absolutely everyone of your comments……

    • You keep Vick on a list but according to you he’s not worth talking about

  78. Of course it wasn’t. It was the biggest problem. The problem was always the overrated fraud they finally just fired. The other problem was the ignorant and othen bigoted fanbase that kept the vitriolic treatment of Vick going even when he was lighting the league on fire in 2010. Many of the same assholes are on this veri site.

    Don’t believe me? Jakedog,Vinnie, ddcar , and a few othe usual suspects.

  79. As the Old year leaves I am satisfied with

    the Giants not in the playoffs
    the Cowboys not in the playoffs
    14 years of frustration washing down the drain; hope begins to stir.

    As the New Year dawns:

    Redskins: Shanahan finds another running back in the 6th round, RGlll will only get better a new power rises in the East

    Giants: Eli very inconsistent; Vaunted defense crumbles time for tinkering, no salsa dancing this year

    Cowboys: Romo comes up small…..again, Rob Ryan is overrated, Jason Garret will get fired and Plastic Face will oversee another draft and the Cowboys will come up short again

    Eagles: 14 years of frustration are now behind us, a new staff will soon be on board, time to build a defense that is physical, nasty and produces turnovers, is Foles the answer we will find out in 2013, a critical draft for Howie impact players are needed. Hope he doesn’t blow it. 3 years before the Eagles are in the mix again

    • Phillyfan I hope this doesn’t take 3 years, part of the reason I’m glad the skins won the east is that it shows the Birds are not that far away. The skins are frauds and Seattle will drive that point home when they meet. It was past time for Andy to go. I just hope like heck they pick the right guy.

    • Just wondering what it is you do, follow all article written about Mike Vick, so you can make a stupidass comment, every article I read you’ve been there. Sounds like you may need to find a life outside of Mike Vick

  80. Also nice going with the convenient silence with jakedog playing the racecard in the other thread. I guess when a white guy (or people) wants to point out racial disparities or issues; it’s legitimate. Not one of you called him on it. I guess having an irrational hatred for Vick is ok(Vinnie primarily), but calling it out somehow makes you an apologist. Got it.

    • I don’t know what was up with Jake but that was ridiculous, I try not to even engage with him anymore.

    • racists are against one thing the human race not sure why you are even discussing race in this forum but ok.

      i have a rational hatred (and when I say hatred i really mean dislike…)of vick though and it has zero to do with the fact that his skin color is darker than mine. i hate him for the following reasons in no particular order:

      1. he massacred and tortured dogs
      2. he let a lot of kids down that looked up to him as a role model
      3. he always has been an awful quarterback
      4. currently he would be one of the worst quarterbacks in the Cfl
      5. he is not accountable
      6. he gave the finger to the atlanta falcons fans live on monday night football
      7. he talks a lot, never backs it up and isnt accountable when he fails – recent example – last week he said he could break records this week – then he has another awful performance and doesnt mention how bad he was but talks about his teammates.
      8. he cant throw a football
      9. he cant read defenses
      10. he doesnt protect himself
      11. he is turnover prone
      12. he is injury prone
      13. he just isnt a good qb

      • He’s not going to be here mhenski you have stated before why you don’t like Vick nothing racist about it, I think brewski read some posts by Jake that were crazy stupid.

    • So you noticed that as well, these kind folks just told me a week ago, they don’t discuss race, they don’t make racially motivated comments. They actually called me a racist for calling them out for being the racist they are. Thanks again

  81. **More News**

    Sources say Jeff Lurie will be catching a plane to Houston today to meet with Dirk Koetter the offensive coordinator guru for the Houston Texans.

  82. dangelo hall who stole money from the raiders?you said you gonna be a skins fan why dont you go post on their board nobody wants to hear about the deadskins who Seattle will take apart next week!BEAT IT!!

  83. You mean Houston Texans Offensive Coordinator Rick Dennison ???
    Dirk Koetter is the OC for the Atlanta Falcons, JH..

    Rick Dennison is a 18 Year Coach in the NFL who coached at Denver Broncos
    from when he retired as a playing in 1995 to 2009, then joined Gary Kubiak as the Offensive Coordinator of the Houston Texans since 2009..
    He’s from Montana and kind of a straight talking kind of fella, personally, I am not sure he is a right fit for the Philadelphia Market..

    • Me neither. Houston has proven, they can’t compete with the Elite of the NFL, so whats all the hype about Dennison. I don’t like Mike McCoy either. His success can be directly related to Peyton Manning. Sense he isn’t in Philadelphia, I don’t think this man would work here…bad choice.

      1. Vic Fangio is and remains my choice
      2. If Lurie wants someone young, and innovative…Bill O’Brian
      3. Gus Bradley
      4. Greg Roman
      5. I’m not totally against Josh McDaniels either

  84. Atlanta offensive coordinator*

  85. Which is it JH,
    Lurie going down to Atlanta,Ga to Talk with OC Dirk Koetter
    or to Houston to talk to OC Rick Dennison…

  86. Cardinals did Fire Coach Ken Wisenhut fyi..

    My Guess is that MIke McCoy,Ricky Dennison, Chip Kelly are in line for
    this Job

  87. RG3 baby!!!!

    Now, if the Eagles would have tanked the last games last year to get a shot at the 2 franchise QB’s then there would have been some hope….but naw.

    These pathetic bitches show their true colors all the way and tank this season with no franchise QB in sight.

    that’s Philadelphia for ya.

    Here’s some hope guys!!!!

    Rose”woman” is heading up the search for the head coach.

    This shit is hilarious.

    Check out the quote from Lurie….

    “We’re use to winning and winning big”

    This shekel counter have convinced himself that the Eagles have won big.

    Now, I know who was Reid’s son biggest client.

    “TIME’S OUR’S”

    GO RG3

    • Be gone with you. U and i have agreed on many things..mostly the need for toughness on the d side of the ball. If u want to bail on the eagles when they areb own and out… if u were only just a fair weather fan… fine. But go. Leave in peace.. but please… leave. But dont cry and crawl back here when your owner tries to pay a bunch of players and they all fail. The 1 year the skins win the div and u jump on their nuts.enjoy…. but enjoy from a far.

  88. Reported by NFL Network that Eagles received permission to interview Calcons D/C Mike Nolan which will occur this Friday

    • Director of PlayercPersonnel Of the 49ers Tom Gamble to Interview with
      Cleveland Browns as GM and work for President Joe Banner
      Who is now calling the shots for the Browns

      Asst GM Marc Ross of the NY Giants to interview for open GM position for Carolina Panthers

      I simply mention these 2 fellas for their Talent. Their past experience in Phiily and would be good, solid Football minds to bring back to the Eagles Organization in my opinion

  89. Russell Wilson, is having a storybook year, that no one could have predicted. But this doesn’t make you a genius Llarrwd. The majority of your assessments of draft prospects we’re wrong.
    How did Michael Floyd this year?
    Jerel Worthy?
    Devon Still?
    Stephen Gilmore?
    Michael Brockers?
    Did they draft a Safety in the first Round?

    Thats cool, you can bust my stones on the fantasy year Russell Wilson is having but………recognize, that the majority of what I predicted would happen came to fruition. And I still predict, Wilson’s play is an aberration, more so than skill.

    If your gonna brag, and tell the story of how GMCliff didn’t like Russell Wilson, make sure you tell the whole story…Because you came up a lot more short than I did fella.

    12 of the 16 players I wanted are starters………..
    2 made the team and we’re injured during Pre-Season……
    To tell it like it is….I was on the money more than most including you…
    And I was also right about Vontez Burfict, being an OLB, not a MLB……Lets talk about that…………He made an NFL Team, and IS STARTING…

  90. HAppy New Years to everyone

    Since I was only one that mentioned that mike Nolan would
    Be a Cabdidate, what do you think about a
    Combo of A Coaching Staff of HC who is Defensive minded
    Retains Todd Bowles as DC (they worked well together for Miami and
    Then hire a Pat Shurmer as the OC ??
    Maybe not a bad combo.. Shurmer did a pretty good job in developing
    QB Weeden considering his slow start

    • Fraud he wasn’t even on your wish list earlier in this thread! Wtf are you talking about, in the last month you have mentioned over 30 names.

      • He did mention him…I personally thought he was kidding…I hope the Eagles are kidding…don’t like Nolan as a candidate.

        • GM there is noway Lurie goes the Nolan route. This is just to pass time. His eyes are on Chip Kelly, Bill Obrien, Bruce Arians and Jon Gruden as a darkhorse. He’s going with innovators, visionaries, guys that know football and have had past success and know how to win games.

          • Oh, I agree Jon…I didn’t say Lurie was going to hire him…I just stated the Paulman DID refer to him as the Eagles next Head Coach….

            .If you reference my coaching candidates my top choices, are
            1. Vic Fangio
            2. Bill O’Brian
            3. Gus Bradley
            4. Greg Roman
            5. Josh McDaniels
            6. Dirk Koetter

            • Yeah I know bro. Good list too btw. Fangio was on my 1st list but i started to think about it this is a offensive driven league and a league that caters to the offense. So i think the birds go offense. Or maybe pick a guy like bruce arians who knows both sides of the ball really well. But my 1st pick is Obrien hands down.

              • he is an old school innovative, detailed defensive minded Coach, that could hire an Offensive Coordinator, that is just as detailed, and fierce. Like Joe Lombardi of the Saints, who is the QB Coach. Drew Brees wasn’t Drew Brees, until Lombardi got a hold of him. Could do wonders with Nick Foles.

                I think it would be, shortsighted, not to mention, a mistake not to bring him in for an interview. We need to fix our Defense, and get back to our intimidating reputation.

        • Isn’t it amazing Cliff How so few “so called knowledgeable posters” seem to lack the attention span to recall anything that isn’t in a current post as if some of us want repeat everything in every thread, unbelievable
          Anyways, Happy New Years to you and your Family..

  91. Fraud you still haven’t addressed you constant posts on Donahue being the one running things behind the scenes?! Hahaha how bout you address that.

  92. As I stated Twice on Sun/Monday,
    Owner Lurie will roll out Donahoe as VP of Football Ops in the next few days
    Yesterday was about the Departure of Andy Reid as I stated it would be to give AR the respect and well wishes of his Tenure
    I expect Lurie/Roseman to make an annoucement with Donahoe
    Probably by Friday as the new VP of Football Ops

  93. **More News**

    Hearing from a source that Chip Kelly may end up staying put at Oregon and that Andy Reid may end up with the Cardinals HC job.

  94. As i reported Andy is about to take the Zona job. Will be interesting to see who he brings with him to coach alongside him.

  95. I’m really starting to lean towards Bill Obrien to be the next HC for the Eagles. This would be the ideal place for him. He fits exactly what Lurie said he wanted. An innovator, a leader, someone that is a forward thinker. And btw hes only 43. He fits the description almost perfectly. He may be the guy. Hes my #1 pick.

  96. Add Doug Marrone to the eagles list of college canidates (chip kelly, bill obrien).

  97. **More News**

    -According to sources the Eagles will be interviewing Bill Obrien the coach of the Penn State football team. Sources say Lurie is “intrigued” by Obrien.

    My thoughts- Like I said earlier Obrien is the guy Lurie wants and hes #1 on my list as well. He embodies everything we need. On top of it all he was the offensive coordinator for the pats with future HOF Tom Brady who he got in a shouting match with on the sideline. I ll never forget that. I like a coach like that. Hes tough, innovative, a leader and young is only 43. He’s the guy.

  98. Here is Paul’s reference to Mike Nolan ……………paulman
    December 27, 2012 – 1:31 pm

    A Coach who Coached for 2-3 Seasons or Less and not having things work out is not a Re-Tread.. Coaches like McDaniels, Mike Nolan,Mike Singletary, Scott Lineham all failed in their first stints after showing some Promise, they probably now have a better understanding and perspective on how they may do things different..
    Now a Coach with who had many years experience and that has bounced around with different Team are who I would consider a Re-tread like Norv Turner, Andy Reid, Tony Dungy, Bill Cowher, Jon Gruden, Bill Parcells, Joe Gibbs,Dennis Green, Dave Wannstadt, etc,etc are what I consider Re-Treads not Coaches who has 1-2 Seasons in a unwinnable situation in some cases..

  99. Here is the 2nd and definitive reference to Mike Nolan :

    December 23, 2012 – 8:44 pm

    Mike Nolan (D/C of the Falcons) will be the next Coach
    Todd Bowles will remain as DC since they worked together for the Miami Dolphins to get the Defensive side of the Ball straight
    The OC could be Cam Csneron who was Filres a month ago from
    The Colts which he has worked with Flacco pretty well the last few years
    Remember you heard it from Paulman first

  100. I bet Reid hires Pat Shurmur for OC with the Cardinals
    Remember it was Shurmur who spent the most time with Kolb and would probably be the one to get his confidence back
    Reid would keep Horton Jr as DC/ Asst HC Titke to keep him happy
    And most likely hire Castillo as O/C, Culley as WR Coach,
    And Williams as RB Coach who have been with Reid fir a long time

  101. I see Marty M going to the Raiders as OC/Asst HC
    As they rebuild in Oakkand

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