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Arrows Still Point To Michael Vick As The Starter

Foles,Kinne,Vick1Eagles head coach Chip Kelly has gone out of way to make it seem that there’s a serious chance second-year quarterback Nick Foles could beat out Michael Vick for the starting quarterback position.  I think there’s very little chance of that happening.

I keep coming back to the read option and the fact that Kelly wants to run this play as part of his rushing attack.  Utilizing the quarterback as a running threat is a key concept of Kelly’s and it has proven to be effective in the NFL for other teams like the Redskins, 49ers, and Seahawks in helping the running game.

Kelly points out that the read option is only one part of the offense.

Yes that is true, but the head coach is committed to running it during the season because he invested a tremendous amount of TIME working on the read option during OTA’s and the mini-camp.  Kelly knows that the Birds have a limited amount of TIME to prepare for the upcoming season.

Why would you spend so much time working on the read option in the walk through periods and in the team periods, but not use it during the season?

Practice time is as precious as diamonds to a NFL coach during this off season.  It’s especially valuable to a rookie coach in 2013, because the recent CBA between the owners and the players has greatly restricted the amount of time the team is able to practice together during the off season.

I watched the Eagles put in consecutive 10 to 15 minute periods working on the read option in the OTA’s.  Kelly even took the time to have Foles and Barkley running the play, which to me isn’t realistic.  Vick and fourth stringer Dennis Dixon are the only two quarterbacks who can be a serious run threat in the read option offense.

I also find it obvious that Vick believes he’s the starter by asking for Kelly to name a starter ASAP.  If he thought the starting job was going to Foles, he wouldn’t want the starter to be named any time soon, because that would give him more chances to win the job back from the second year quarterback.  Does Vick have a good reason for believing he is going to be the starter?  I think he does.

I also believe Vick’s decision to go public with the request for Kelly to name a starter was a mistake by him because it makes him look nervous and fearful about losing his job. on Facebook

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Profile photo of GarryCobb Posted by on Jun 17 2013. Filed under BREAKING NEWS, Eagles, General News, News. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

145 Comments for “Arrows Still Point To Michael Vick As The Starter”

  1. I don’t know if it’s OBVIOUS that Vick is the starter, but his ability to run certainly helps his chances. Still you have to consider that Vick won’t last even half the season (injury-wise) if the Eagles run a read option that entails Vick carrying the ball. RGIII is bigger and stronger than Vick and we saw the beatings he took all season long, so I find it hard to believe Vick can last in a read option offense at this stage of his career. I will say that Vick is probably the favorite because they’re paying him like a starter and he makes our offense harder to game plan against once the season starts. I like how the other QB’s (especially Foles) are getting a lot of reps though. I think Kelly knows that Vick won’t last and hes trying to get the other guys as ready as possible.

    My prediction: Vick gets the Week 1 start but gets hurt @ Denver Week 4 with a concussion or broken ribs. Foles comes in and the read offense becomes a west coast offense that resembles what the Patriots run minus a Hall-of-Fame quarterback. 7-9 record

  2. Per ray didinger, foles emerged as the best qb by the end of the otas, Vick sees this, so I disagree with your assessment, Vick is barking because he’s losing the job, it won’t be lost though until the beginning of the preseason schedule,if Vick could handle the most important part of the job, decision making, he would already be named the starter, but then again if he made good decisions over his entire career he’d be one of the best qbs instead of mediocre, below average qb

    • ding ding. Ring the bell, because its over.

      Vick just another in a long line of prima donnas who do not recognize its over. (I think I disagree with you here Jake – I don’t think Vick sees it – he’s never seen any of his other deficiencies – why start now?)

      Owens: Why aren’t teams calling me?
      Ocho: Ditto
      Favre: One more comeback…what? Why isn’t the phone ringing?
      Vick: Why haven’t I been named starter already? I’m the Starship7!!!

      Hard for some guys to see the writing on the wall.

      Reports have Vick anywhere from 10 to 20% less completions in camp, more ints, and bouncing balls off the big screens, ball being swatted out by the coach……but Vick still asking for the starter (meaning him) to be named.

      Desperate times for desperate measures.

      But not for much longer. August will be here soon enough and this QB shitshow will mercifully come to an end and it will be Winnipeg’s problem moving forward.

    • well of course Ray Didinger sees it that way…he is a biased Vick-hater. The sound, unbiased, football analysis is being supplied by G Cobb here. What everybody keeps forgetting about Chip Kelly is that he wants to RUN the football, the question is what QB helps the running game with the read-option…its a no-brainer…Mike Vick.

  3. Vick is not the brightest bulb in the box and I cannot see him leading the team to a winning season. He can’t slide, read defenses, hold onto the ball,and throw accurately. It’s way too late for him to turn it around.

  4. I’d be pretty surprised if Vick doesn’t win the starting job. I don’t see the Eagles keeping him around as a backup. I don’t think he (or Jackson) are helping themselves by questioning the coaches decision to not name the starter yet.

  5. That kapernick experiment sure ended poorly.

  6. Vick is definitely going to win. He just beat Mccoy in a race and has a rocket arm. I heard on the radio Foles might be the slowest QB in the league. He does have the height however.

    • Eli is the slowest QB in the league

      He has 2 rings

    • Let me clue you in on something larrrwd, the qb position is not a skills competition, just because you can run, have a rocket arm, are an exciting improviser does not make you a qb, , roger goddell jeffie lure notwithstanding, you need brains, leadership ability, presence, work ethic, all the things Vick lacks, so on balance, foles is a much better quarterback than Vick, can you comprehend that or are you so biased your judgment is clouded, I know foles doesn’t have “it”, that amorphous term thrown around by your racists friends who just can’t stand the thought of any white qb behind center, but get used to it, get over your “hate”‘ just like enlightened white folk did many years ago when they realized racism, prejudice, has no place in life, sports

  7. Some of these Vick-bashers are simply stupid. So blinded by the hater juice that they drink so often…they cant see that Kelly’s emphasis is not going to on the passing game…but the RUN game! The QB that helps this offense is Mike Vick. He is not going to be throwing the ball 50 times a game and getting beat to death behind a weak offense line and with a balanced offense, Vick will be much, much better.
    GCobb nails it in this article…you dont spend a bunch of time practicing the read-option unless you go with the QB who can run it…and that is clearly Mike Vick!

  8. For the last Time. Running is the job of a running back that can be replaced through drafts Very easily when compared to a QB.

    You do not buy a Ferrari and enter a Rally Race you are wasting your money!

    A QB needs to THROW the ball or HAND it off. Any action other than this is a BAD USE OF INVESTMENT!

    Running QB’s are a TERRIBLE IDEA PERIOD!!!!!!

  9. LET the Running back you pay 2 mil a year take the pounding vs the QB you pay 20 mil a year. G. You know I am right on this point!

  10. Get with the times RegalEagle. Not only have there been a plethora of running QBs who have won the superbowl, but running QBs are now ALL THE RAGE!!

    Better for the Eagles to be ahead of the curve rather than behind it baby!! Forget all that championship winning pocket passing BS. That’s soooooo 2012! Take a look at the CHANGING FACE OF THE NFL:

    Like Washington:
    Where their 23 yr old Rrad-option QB is recovering from his second of what will become yearly knee shreddings!

    Like Seattle:
    Who’s QB today announced: “To be honest with you, I don’t really like running. I’d rather throw the ball to guys and let the true playmakers make the plays.” (what a concept!!!)

    And of course like SF
    Whose QB could eat Mike Vick and not gain a pound. And still he only played about 10 games running around….give him a season and even he’ll be rolling around on the ground clutching his leg at some point.


    Read-option running QBs are the FUTURE! Get on it!! The coach of the Packers is:

    “To play wide-open football with the exposure of a quarterback on the perimeter, as a runner, more movements, the risk for injury definitely goes up. That is just my opinion,” – Mike McCarthy, Green Bay Packers

  11. I’m glad that G.Cobb is keeping it real and not being biased. Vick should be the starter not because he can run, but he gives us the best chance to win. NFL defenses will be HAPPY if Foles is the starter and they know they will have a statue in the pocket who will turn the ball over. Foles had about six picks dropped lay year, but people don’t talk about that and only say “he was a rookie”. Fuck that. Vick will be better this year. Guaranteed. If we run the ball (which philly fans have been crying for over a decade) he will be better. No QB should be throwing 40 times a game. . too many bad things can happen.

    Vick will win the job.

  12. We’ve go a lot of new posters here that I’ve never seen before…’Vick Supporter’, ‘koolbreeze’…Well, the problem with Michael Vick is the same with a leopard changing it’s spots…It doesn’t happen.

    But, perhaps Vick will do a 180 degree turn, and become a winner for the first time in his career, make good judgements etc…

    ‘G.Cobb keeping it real’…Hmmmmm….

  13. 56-44 WL as a starter….. that looks like a winning record to me. I guess I can’t count and you can.

    And I’m not new on here either woman

    • How many play off wins? In his whole career? In his best year?

      Add to the lexicon-

      Vick Supporter – (N) A device for holding up your Vick, (V) State of delusional extasy caused buy grabbing ones Vick. (*) A good thing it isn’t paulman typing or the V’s would accidentally be D’s.

  14. Are there any Demaris Johnson supporters here?

  15. What makes you think Vick gives them the best chance to win that’s a bunch of bullshit!!!

  16. No QB gas elevated the self to be the “Starter” in shorts and OTA’s..
    One will emerge by the 2nd Pre-Season Game after a couple of weeks of Summer. Amp when They get the Pads on and have real contact and find out which QB can run the Offense the most effectively.. I still am on the fence on how much the Read-option or variation of it will be in Play once contact and Pre-Season comes along.. Dixon is probably best prepared and experienced running it for the 5-6 Times it may a tyally be run come the real Season..
    I envision the Eagles Offense similar to what Stanford runs which will be double-triple TE Sers, Power running between the tackles and lots of screens,slants and occasional Deep Routes to keep Defenses on their toes..
    At least this is what I hope they do and emspecially with Pat Shurmur as O/C who us pure awest-Coast Aoffense, (3-5-7 Steps drop backs with quick throws and short routes on the outside with the TE’s used between the nlumbers and down the kiddie to take advantage of mid-matches..

  17. “Vick is injury prone” “Vick is not the brightest bulb in the box” “Vick is a turnover machine” “Vick can’t read defenses……..

    Now, if this guy is named starter by Chip Kelly then what does that say about Foles?

  18. Vick SUCKS! That is all…………

    • What have you accomplished? Nothing. That’s why you’re in your trailer bashing someone you never met. Keep typing away computer gangster

      • People who have accomplished nothing are normally sent packing to the trailer?

        So why the love for a QB who has accomplished nothing in the NFL?

        • 4 time pro bowler.
          MVP Runner up twice
          Winning record as a starter
          All time leading rusher at QB
          First QB to win in playoffs at Lambeau
          Led one man team Falcons to NFC title game (philly was the better team that year, hands down)
          #1 pick in the draft
          I could name many more

          Aren’t those accomplishments?

          • MVP runner up is an accomplishment? Marcus you have set a real low bar

          • No. Not really.

            4 time pro-bowler.
            Popularity contest. Jake Delholme, Gus Ferotte, Vince Young and Trent Dilfer have been pro-bowlers

            MVP runner up 2x
            Mirage. Based on ESPN highlights. Vick had 5 good games for that 2010 award….Eagles should have used that hype to trade him like the Cowboys did Hershel. Besides….that’s ancient history.

            Winning record.
            He’s 12 games over .500 in 11 seasons. Mark Sanchez is on the same pace

            All time leading rusher at QB
            Who cares?

            First QB to win in playoffs at Lambeau
            GB turned the ball over 6 times. Vick was 52% 117 yrds passing. He was a non-factor.

            Led one man team to NFC championship game
            I was there. Pre-game everyone down…coming off 3 str8 champ defeats…everyone nervous….’capt me. I was slapping everyone on the back….this is a freebie! Vick can’t handle this shit. SB in 2 weeks. Done and done.

            #1 pick in the draft
            So were Bosworth and Leaf. They don’t all work out.

            I could name more.

            Step your game up Vick poster boy!

  19. If he doesn’t win the job over a 2nd year player, a rookie and perpetual 3rd string QB, then that is pretty sad.

  20. yawn- round and round we go…..

    Vick has not blown anyone away in the minicamp.
    Foles has not blown anyone away in the minicamp.

    These 2 will compete and the best (or perhaps least terrible) qb will be the starter.

    Vick has always been about potential and moments where he shows flashes of amazingness. He has all the ability in the world… fast, strong arm and such…. but there are QUESTIONS about his ability to read D’s (that stands for defense), leadership and overall character. These questions are legit. Add to this the fact that he is injured often and we see why he is not named the starter.

    Foles is an unknown. He is tall and shows some leadership skills (aka… SEEMS more of a team player and less me me me.. but we really have no idea. Despite Vinnie and some others oohhs and ahhhhs over every throw… and their excuses as to why he has many turnovers….. we really haven’t seen enough of this guy to say he’s any good. Again,,,, we dont know. My hope is that he blows everyone away and is the clear cut choice for starter. My hope is that he not only looks like Tom Brady in height… but also plays like Tom Brady on the field. We havent seen that yet,

    So…… here’s an idea….. lets see how these guys play when camp rolls around. Lets see what they look like during those “pointless” preseason games. Let the best QB win.

    • ” leadership and overall character”

      – Eh..maybe as Falcon but not as an Eagle.

      – Vick’s biggest issue is his decision making the – just because you can stick it in a tight window doesn’t mean you should try to do so all of the time – problem is a problem.

      – His defense reading is much improved – but still lacking, can he be good – not great – but good on a consistent basis with reading Ds..don’t know – but he is better…is better good enough? Time will tell.

      – He fumbles a lot. That’s not changing – don’t care what he says or how many times he says it. Not. Changing.

      SO to get this gig he’d have to improve on the first two to make up for the latter.

      “Vick has not blown anyone away in the minicamp.
      Foles has not blown anyone away in the minicamp.”

      It’s not really possible to blow anyone away in mini-camp – it’s just a conditioning and learning session – unless you’re pulling a Mark Snachez – mini-camp allows coaches to get film and to help you work on the things you need to improve on – and get you back into football chanp.

      Training Camp will separate the men from the boys. And honestly I don’t think it will be close, whoever the QB ends up being, it will become pretty obvious in training camp.

      • “get you back into football chanp.”

        should be

        “get you back into football shape”

      • Didn’t you say you were done with posting on Vick stories or Vick until some future time? Do I have you mixed up with someone else?

        • Do I care what you think?

          • tsjohnson = hypocrite, fraud

            just like typcial vick apologists

          • Hard to believe you can’t answer a question once again . Just a typical spineless jellyfish throwin their shit comments in the wind and never explaining, discussing or justifying and talking at people rather than to them. I feel bad for you mostly because you don’t even know the type of person you are.

            With that response I am pretty confident that was you that said that and what do you know the hypocritical fraud you are talked about Vick less than 7 days since that post.

            2 more things

            1- I never said what I think in the original question.
            2- I am not a cyber mind or in your case mindless reader to know what you care about with the exception of your caring about mostly nothing philly sports related with the exception soon to be replaced qb mike Vick (whether that this year or next)

            • lol…sigh It was TS and Biglion. Can’t blame em though its rough not commenting, especially when G puts up 2 Vick stories a week. Plus TS Loves Vick.

              • Its more schoolgirl infatuation/crush but you’re on the right track.

              • I’m not commenting on anything QB related until training camp and honestly I think I’ll extend it into the regular season this attacking each other and we’re all Eagle fans is stupid.

              • *rolls eyes*

                There wasn’t a question to answer – I said I wouldn’t comment on QB posts till TC (u knew that) – I was unaware that was a binding contract.

                Gosh – I changed my mind made a comment – the end.

                As far as not caring about Philly Sports outside of the Ealges – of which I’ve commented on whether Vick was the subject or not – you’re right. NOT a baseball fan and am a lifelong Lakers fan – already said that.

                “Plus TS Loves Vick.”

                Yes. I LOVE M. Vick – that’s what it is *rolls eyes*

                Even though I’m sure you guys are the ones with the posters on your wall.

              • man ts is one dumb fucker…

              • Ahhh Vinnie funny…’cause all the time you spend talking about Vick I think you’re the one with the crush.

                It’s like closet gays – they are some of the WORST gay bashers, but that’s because they are secretly suppressing their desires. Or racists who secretly lust after the race they claim they can’t stand – and spend so much time bashing.

                Classic systems. It’s okay. None of us would think less.

              • Know why you can’t blame TS? Because TS is only RESPONDING to the endless negative post about Vick. The very simpletons that call TS and any other RESPONDER an apologist ARE THE VERY ONES WHO CONSTANTLY keep mentioning him in every other post. THIS IS INDISPUTABLE. They believe that ALWAYS calling him stupid, dumb, sucks, injury prone, the anti-christ, blah blah blah is somehow impartial honest critique. G could introduce a story about special teams play on the 1973 eagles and you’ll the same usual subjects injecting negative comments about Vick into the thread.

  21. Foles is also from a losing culture.

  22. Great idea Stevo. Hopefully GCOBB can stop posting the same article over and over again here.

    It is too long to camp.

    • bugsy… that will not happen as long as you guys jump at every chance to comment about how great or horrible Vick is. The simpleminded only care about the QB… they see no need for the rest of the team. Comment about the CB’s and they talk about Vick…. write a blog post about the coach serving shakes and the simpleton speaks about Vick again. For the simpleton, there is no other position of worth.

  23. Mhenski your disrespect of woman puts you on par with Shady McCoy but I’m sure its just TS you have an issue with right? Geez my man give it a break.

    • hey Lion and you are just as much of a dumb fuck as ts for that dumbass comment. ts spews shit everyday and is disrespectful and tries to belittle all kinds of folk.

      if anyone here spewed diarrhea out of their mouth here everyday and made all kinds of posts, points, and utter shit slopped on this message board and refused to talk with people and chose to talk at them, refused to back up their points with anything other than because I said so even when asked, refused to answer questions or provide any insite, made posts saying one thing then doing the complete opposite, comes to an Philly sports website and only comments on/about Vick and is dumb enough to say you didnt ask a question even know there were two… I’d say the same thing to them man, women or a chick with a dick.

      so in a nutshell act like a fuckin idiot and I’ll call you an idiot regardless of what you take a piss out of.

      ts wants to talk about sports so be it ts is gonna be talkin to a lot of men. you think I’m going to some nail salon blog or shoe blog or purse blog talking about who paints the best fucking nails, makes the best purses ????

      • “if anyone here spewed diarrhea out of their mouth here everyday and made all kinds of posts, points, and utter shit slopped on this message board and refused to talk with people and chose to talk at them, refused to back up their points with anything other than because I said so even when asked, refused to answer questions or provide any insite, made posts saying one thing then doing the complete opposite, comes to an Philly sports website and only comments on/about Vick and is dumb enough to say you didnt ask a question even know there were two… I’d say the same thing to them man, women or a chick with a dick. ”

        But i thought you liked Vinnie?

        • vinnie is respectful and backs up his posts with stats, gives analysis and opinions based on stats and what he watches. he also engages in conversation. he also doesn’t say completely false and idiotic things that he made up in his own head and when someone asks him for clarification he doesn’t respond because I say so or respond with something other than an answer. lastly vinnie posts his thoughts about many things Philly sports related and on other topics non vick related unlike some people.

          he does go to far trying to convince people that the earth is round though, those folk can’t be convinced and or helped.

          so even though you made a statement and didnt really ask a question even though a question is at the end of that shit pile of words the above is my thoughts about vin in the context of discussing “if anyone here spewed diarrhea out of their mouth here everyday and made all kinds of posts, points, and utter shit slopped on this message board and refused to talk with people and chose to talk at them, refused to back up their points with anything other than because I said so even when asked, refused to answer questions or provide any insite, made posts saying one thing then doing the complete opposite, comes to an Philly sports website and only comments on/about Vick and is dumb enough to say you didnt ask a question even know there were two… I’d say the same thing to them man, women or a chick with a dick. ”

          • MHeShe, where do you get off talking about chicks with sticks. You’re the 2nd GCobb transgender of record. VinneMySister being the first….

            ” vinnie posts his thoughts about many things Philly sports related and on other topics non vick related unlike some people” Really Mheshe…??? Haven’t been gone that long but a weak ass comment about time and time of possession being a reason of concern, is worth saving to self. You are a clown still talking about the same ol same.

      • “… dumb enough to say you didnt ask a question even know there were two”


        Let me explain this for you and your obviously small brain:

        My response “There wasn’t a question to answer” – was in reference to the rhetorical question you asked – you KNEW I had said I wasn’t going to comment – so that’s not a real question, you weren’t seeking any real confirmation (’cause you already knew) so there was nothing for me to answer. It was your (sad) attempt at being a smart ass.

        “ts wants to talk about sports so be it ts is gonna be talkin to a lot of men”

        I have 8 Uncles, a slew of male cousins and date men who’d eat you for lunch. You gonna come for me you better do better than “tranny” and “dumb fucker”

        You’re about as scary as the tooth fairy.

        Go back to the drawing board Honey, maybe you’ll get it right next time.

        • believe whatever you want but I asked the question because I wasn’t sure I thought I read that but wasn’t 100%. I should’ve asked someone else, I know you generally don’t do well with answering questions.

          I don’t wanna go back to a drawing board I legit think you are a dumb fuck for many of reasons. thanks for letting me know you are related to Jeffrey Dahmer type folk.

          • “vinnie is respectful and backs up his posts with stats”

            Yeah. Didn’t get passed that.

            “thanks for letting me know you are related to Jeffrey Dahmer type folk.”

            Yeah thanks for proving this point “your obviously small brain”

            Never fails.

      • Whatever Mhenski, this must be the highlight of your life calling people names on a blog are you still in High School? Get a life buddy.

        • Not “a” blog…She’s everywhere! She out defending Vick and tearing into detractors on every blog site on the Eastern Seaboard.

          As I said before, I really hope she gets paid by Vick’s publicist for all the work she does trying to maintain his rapidly fading image.

          • “Not “a” blog…She’s everywhere! She out defending Vick and tearing into detractors on every blog site on the Eastern Seaboard.”

            Says the man who posts bullshit stat after bullshit stat on every Eagles blog available.

            Once again – Pot meet Kettle

            • Vinnie doesn’t need me to defend him, but his stats are usually pretty much spot on. I know certain sites have small differences but I have check his stats more than once and they have been right. This being a blog you can’t just take someones word, I’m just saying Ive done the research and he’s good. Stats of course aren’t everything but they mean a heck of a lot TS. Thats what makes this so annoying, Vick is a mediocre QB at best….Yet he gets superstar support. I understand loyalty…but to the Eagles not a career mediocre QB. Time to give a new GUy a chance…Ill be happy with Barkley Foles or Dixon at this point.

              • The only people who thinks Vinnie’s stats are spot on are those who know nothing about stas. He makes comparisons that aren’t even valid.

                He’s been called out on this may times by many posters. As a matter of fact show Vinnie the obvious problem with his stats and he stops talking. Moves on to another subject – that’s what he does with all of his arguments – when you show the obvious holes – all of a sudden the emperor has no clothes.

              • Thats right TS just like others on here, as soon as hey disagree with you they know nothing. Im happy I don’t respond to your ignorance likewise…yet I will call you out on it. You can keep up the emotional hope that Vick will be good, but his career stats say otherwise. Thats a fact.

  24. Like GCobb, I will continue to comment on the Eagles QB situation whenever the urge strikes me.

    I saw an article the other day with some good facts about Nick Foles’ rookie season. Foles did lose 5 of the 6 games he started last year, but I was not aware how bad the Eagles defense played in those starts.

    Check this -f rom Jimmy Kempski……..

    “Foles appeared in 7 games last season. In those games, the opposing QBs had a combined passer rating of an astounding 138.6. The single season record for passer rating was Aaron Rodgers in 2011, at 122.5. The next two guys on the list are Peyton Manning in 2004, at 121.1, and Tom Brady in 2007, at 117.2. In the seasons in which Rodgers, Manning, and Brady put up those numbers, they combined for a record of 43-5, or a winning percentage of 0.896. Because the Eagles’ defense couldn’t stop anyone last year, particularly in the games in which Foles appeared, Foles was playing against the equivalent of some sort of infallible QB that can only be created in a video game.”

    Because the defense couldn’t stop anyone, Foles was asked to throw the ball at an absurd rate for a rookie. In the 6 games he started, Foles threw 233 passes, for an average of 38.3 per game. He also threw 32 passes in 2.5 quarters against the Cowboys, in relief of Michael Vick, to bring his total on the season to 265. By comparison, Russell Wilson threw 393 passes in 16 starts, or 24.6 per game. Not to take anything away from Wilson, who was tremendous last year, but when you have the #1 ranked defense in points allowed, the #4 ranked defense for yards allowed, the #3 ranked rush offense, and the lowest run:pass ratio (42% pass : 58% run) in the NFL, that tends to make things a lot easier on a QB.

    • Key offensive players who did not play in the games Foles started:

    -Redskins: Jason Peters, Jason Kelce, Todd Herremans, Jason Avant.
    -Panthers: Jason Peters, Jason Kelce, Todd Herremans, Jason Avant, LeSean McCoy.
    -Cowboys: Jason Peters, Jason Kelce, Todd Herremans, LeSean McCoy.
    -Buccaneers: Jason Peters, Jason Kelce, Todd Herremans, LeSean McCoy, DeSean Jackson, Brent Celek (played 1 snap).
    -Bengals: Jason Peters, Jason Kelce, Todd Herremans, LeSean McCoy, DeSean Jackson, Brent Celek.
    -Redskins: Jason Peters, Jason Kelce, Todd Herremans, DeSean Jackson.

    To sum all of that up, Foles was playing without 3 of his 4 best offensive linemen as well as his best skill position players, and was being asked to chuck the ball 40 times per game while playing from behind because opposing offenses were slicing through Philly’s defense like a hot knife through butter.

    NOTE – Vick’s name is not mentioned above. It’s not a comparison.

    • wow Irish that’s fucking a great post thanks for the scoop.

      • Eagles gave up just over 25 pts a game over the first 10, then over 31 a game over the last 6.

        • and does everyone remember how the 11 Year Vet, Mike Vick when Playing the final Game of the Season versus the Giants.. The game was over by halftime.m and in fact, Vick was benched for the final Quarter with the same Supporting Cast that Foles played with down the stretch..
          At least with Foles, Eagles were in 5 of the 7 Games he played
          Vick is a Disaster and a Player of the Past, Plain and Simple

  25. I don’t think anyone answered my question directly.

    What does that say about Foles if he can’t beat out an old, injury prone, turnover machine?

    For argument sake I agree with all the Vick detractors.

    He’s pathetic…ok?

    Now what does that say about Foles if he can’t beat out Vick for the starting job?

    • if Kelly is committed to run the same o he ran at Oregon it says Foles can’t run so he can’t run that offense. I heard sal pal today saying chip will be running the New England offense but hasn’t much in otas because ertz is at school and Casey is rehabbing. so if sal pal is correct and they are running that o and Vick wins then it says Foles isn’t good enough in the eyes of the coach.

      now a Vick hater could argue that Vick could get the job soley bc of his rep and experience and because of his money. but I would disagree with that as chip has no loyalties to him, nor does the organization especially financially.

      I’m personally rooting for Foles. I don’t think we have a very good team at all to win more than 7 games but if Foles or Barkley proved legit that would be 1 less moving part year 2/3 of the chip era.

    • I’ve asked similar.

      Pointed out that all Foles fans should be rejoicing since Vick is “insert everything many G Cobbers say” than Foles should beat him handily and shouldn’t be a contest.

      Why so serious?

      But no one has a legit answer to that question ’cause any assessment of Foles faults make you a vickologist.

      • I’ve gave you that answer many of times. And ill say it again ill take any qb on the team over Vick including Dixon id also take any qb of yhe street over him. Just to see if we an solve the qb problem before next years draft.

        • the question was not what QB you would pick over Vick.

          If Foles don’t beat out Vick for the starting job, then what does that say about Foles?

        • All reports are that Foles is beating Vick handidly…but they always add the caveat….”However – Vick is still the front-runner because of his running ability”

          That’s what’s so amusing about the whole thing. Foles played better last year. Foles is playing better this year.

          But Vick runs fast.

          Vick will be cut before the season begins.

          What makes you a Vickpologists TS is you never – ever – acknowledge that Foles faults were in large part due to his being a rookie (let alone a rookie in a terrible situation)

          You constantly bring up Foles 5 ints and 8 fumbles….but always ignore the fact that 3 ints came in his first 6 quarters….and he only had 2 in his next 20 quarters. Or that 5 of his 8 fumbles also game in that first game and a half.

          You refuse to acknowledge that after a game and a half Foles began to improve dramatically, wheras your hero is still doing the exact same shit he was doing a decade ago!

          You refuse to acknowledge this because you are a Vickpologist and you claim that the two players are equivalent. Which is ridiculous.

          • “All reports are that Foles is beating Vick handidly…but they always add the caveat….”However – Vick is still the front-runner because of his running ability””

            Lies. Lies. and Damn Lies.

            “Vick will be cut before the season begins.”

            – First he was going to get cut in the off season
            – Then he was going to be cut before training camp
            – NOW he’s going to be cut before the season begins.

            Keep throwing ish at the wall Vinnie. Maybe something will stick.

            • Pick and choose. Pick and choose. Can’t answer the valid points made about Foles turnovers….(because they’re true and make your hero look bad) so pick up on fact that Vinnie now saying Vick will be cut 2 weeks later than he predicted last month.

              Respond only to little discrepancies – but always avoid talking to anything that blows holes in my points – that’s the TS Johnson way!!!.

              Whether I said Vick is gone by TC, or week 1 is Semantics. He’s toast regardless. Maybe itll be week 3 (I doubt it – I still say he;s gone before the season). Who cares….the sooner, the better.

              I do not know if Foles is a SB QB. I do know he showed potential. I know he improved (rapidly)
              I do not know if Barkley is a SB QB. But I know he showed potential at USC.

              I do know Vick is not a SB QB because in the NFL I’ve watched him vomit the ball to the other team for a decade.

              As for your “lies lies” ridiculousness….do you even read/hear anything?? The ENTIRE PREMISE of this article is about how Vick is ahead because he can run the read option. (and only that)l Last week was an article “read-option puts vick ahead” (or whatever) Every talking head on TV spouts the exact same garbage. And clearly, you enjoy eating up that pablum.

              Yet we all know Foles is hitting 20% more passes, throwing more tds, not hitting the screens, and not getting admonished by the coach for running with the ball at his hip – but he is running so that means he’s “in the lead!!!”

              Lies my ass. Its the truth, but you don’t see it because you’re (hopefully for all the work you do) on the Vick payroll.

              • I answered ur question Steve in my first post what it says about foles in full.

              • Vin truer words have never been written

                Respond only to little discrepancies – but always avoid talking to anything that blows holes in my points – that’s the TS Johnson way!!!.

          • I couldn’t help myself…

            The two players are the equivalent? WTF? Firstly, Vick is a game changer…defenses around the league respect him and that is real talk. This is something that Foles may never be and respect that Foles may never get.

            But you are so quickly to give him that respect? why? because your dislike for Vick is so deep that the Eagles could have a one eyed one legged, blonde haired QB, and your claims and support would be identical.

            If Foles played as well as you say he did last season….then why the hell would the Eagles bring Vick back….?

            • “If Foles played as well as you say he did last season….then why the hell would the Eagles bring Vick back….?”

              Now that’s Real Talk.


    • Songs,

      Tom Brady would have a hard time beating-out Mike Vick at practice. Vick has to be one of the most impressive practice players of all time.

      The old, injury prone turnover machine don’t show his true colors until the red shirt comes off and people start to hit him. As you saw 8 plays into the preseason last year when Vick went down with a injured thumb.

  26. Songs not one of these serial vick haters answered your question directly. And don’t think for a moment you’ll get a pass by stating you agree with his detractors about how much he sucks. See Songs they’ll just move the goalposts again and probably say your lying. Your question is a straight to the point as it gets. Songs how about sweetening the pot. Ask them if Kelly runs a more traditional offense(non read-option) and Foles still can’t beat him out, what does that say about Foles? LMAO

    • Cold brew just another gcobb reader who can’t read and just types lies and bullshit

    • brewski, now that’s an even better question because Reid didn’t run the “Read Option” and after seeing enough of Foles he went back to Vick in a ditch effort to save his job.

      • That is an all out lie songs. Fact is Foles broke his hand and that’s the only reason Vick played that last game. Fact is we lost that game 42-7. Fact is you said your done with the Eagles. Have fun being a Redskins fan.

      • Songs I actually like the kid. I’m already on record stating such. He passes the eye test for me. Something Kolb never did. Which esposed these same assholes who were on his jock too. They know who they are. no need to remind them of how horribly wrong they were then. That being said he still needs to show me what I’ve seen from the other rookies who started last year and looked official. He’s not quite there yet with me. But I would not be upset nor surprised if he won the job.

        But if he can’t beat out “Lucifer”, then he needs to hold a clipboard or move on.

  27. Songs – It would mean that Mike Vick is a better QB than Nick Foles.

    I really don’t believe that is true and I do not believe Vick will start.

    I would rather start a yellow dog than Vick.

    Yes I am a “hater” (I actually do not hate vick) I wan’t him off by beloved team because I think he is at heart still the same selfish poor leader that lied to Arthur Blanks Face and allowed a crap storm to hit his team.

    That kind of disloyalty should have ended in a ban from the league. It didn’t and it has allowed Andy Ried to remain the coach past Donovan McNabb- That should have never happened.

    We are now stuck rebuilding (WE ARE REBUILDING) I just don’t think a 33 y/o QB that may win more games is worth it because I KNOW VICK AINT WINNING A SUPERBOWL!

  28. Rev. Songs my friend, foles will beat Vick out for the job then I will smoke you in a foot race on broad stree.

  29. If Vick is Named the starter it doesn’t say anything about Foles. It will say tons about Chip Kelly and the Offense he wants to run. It’s not all about who is the better QB but it should be. You wanna ask a Black and white Question so it will point to the conclusion you have that Foles stinks. Facts are Facts…Fact is you give Foles 6 games of a Rookie season on a garbage team to prove himself…Yet Vick should get his 12th year cause no coach has used his talents correctly. Fact is Foles out played Vick last year but he’s a 6 game bust in your eyes and don’t deserve the chance to play behind a starting Offense. Fact is Vick does have a winning record but barely. Fact is no matter how many Facts I use some people are gonna disagree and make excuse. Fact is Im not even voicing my opinion here. Fact is your entitled to your opinion but facts are facts. Fact is I wanna win and put the best QB out there to win.

  30. To a large extent this is a fruitless discussion to have. Even if Vick wins the starting job how many games do you think he will be available to play? 4, 6 complete games maybe? I’m not as convinced about Vick winning the job as GCobb simly because Foles has already publicly said the QB only needs a handful of 5-10 yard scrambles per game to back a defense up and he can do that…he didn’t come up with that on his own it was communicated to him from the coaching staff. Based on having that knowledge you already know they are, in fact, going to run the RO with him in at QB and they aren’t setting bar at RG3 standards for Foles to win job. If Vick has a fire under his a__ and throws less interceptions, fumbles less that’s great too, but from past experience we already know that will only last 1 season. It’s all going to play out in summer camp and we’re going to see what the results are in pre-season, chill, relax and grab a frosty beverage of your choice until then.

  31. I am Vicked out and Camp hasn’t even Started yet..
    A Collasal Mistake by the Eagles of even bringing him back for 2013..
    At the time (in January) who knew that the Eagles would be able to land Barkley as most had him projected as a Late 1st-Early 2nd PIck, but Chip Kelly, Roseman and Company will regret this resigning of Vick for this Season and are in essence losing a Year of Developing a QB of the Future..
    So sad to think coming of a 4-12 Season and 12-20 since 2011 to rid the Roster of the “Loser and Selfish Mentality” that has dogged this Franchise for the last couple of Seasons and start afresh with new Younger, hungrier Roster of Players who more reflect the Eagles and their Fans of a No-Nonsense, Hard Working, Team Players who pull for each other and wear the Eagle Uniform Proudly.. We just haven’t seen much of this in Recent Years and I am not Blaming VIck, but feel he is a part of the Old AR Regime and why not Cut the CHord moving Forward has been my biggest complaint and disappointment of this new Chip Kelly Era.. I’ve said it a 100 Times.. This Team will not truly be Chip Kelly’s Team 100%, until Vick is gone and it is what it is.. I already sense a fracture and some questionable attitude by some players and it’s not even Camp Yet..

  32. Wow fraudman stating for the gabillion time how “tired” he is of all the Vick talk. And what a surprise he happened to “stumble” upon a thread about vick and some goon beat the shit out of him forcing a post by the fraudster. This shit with Vick is beyond an obsession with you clowns.

    • It’s not an Obesession with me Coldbrew, but the fact remains, Chip Kelly blew his Best Opporunity to rebuild this Club as his Team in his First Season and now as Fans we all have to wallow in a wasted Season as far as the Development of the QB Position goes for 2013 and beyond for the Eagles..

      • @paulman
        You don’t know if kelly has blown anything considering he hasn’t named a starting qb yet and he clearly knows more about his personnel than some internet GM. So quit with the bait and switch. You’re either obsessed or a liar. Either way it doesn’t say much about you. You don’t get to claim how tired you are of all the Vick talk, but constantly stir the pot yourself. The way you earn credibility when you make such a claim is STFU and stop posting about him. Real simple.

  33. In other news, I usually don’t do this but I saw Man Of Steel. Being an Avid Superman fan I loved it and would suggest it. You don’t even have to know all of the backstory since they explain everything very well. Two thumbs up, Plus Amy Adams is a hottie.

  34. Really TS??? You actually believe your own BS?

    “He makes comparisons that aren’t even valid.”
    Coming from the person who thinks a 11 yr vet and a 6 game rookie should be considered equally.

    There once was quite the legion of Vickpologists……but most have seen the light and now its been reduced to you, real, big and lrrawd……a once noble empire of Vick fans diminished.

    “As a matter of fact show Vinnie the obvious problem with his stats and he stops talking…moves on to another topics”
    I never stop talking, and I never switch topics.

    In fact, the only person who avoids things is you.

    No comment on the Foles ints mostly coming in his first 6 quarters. No comment on his fumbles mostly coming in his first 6 quarters….no comment on vick still doing both these things after 11 years while Foles started correcting them after a game and a half…..

    The Queen of changing topics calling out others for changing topics….

    Oh…and BTW – while I read other blogs, I post only here….unlike you who defend and pimp Vick on every side west of the Mississippi.

    I can imagine your box of toys

    “The Starship”
    “The MV7”
    “The Scrambler”
    “The deep bomb”
    “The ron mexico”

    Keep those batteries charged, you won’t be able to buy any new aids in a year…..unless you’re in Winnipeg of course.


    You don’t work for Vick as I originally thought..

    You ARE Vick.

    There’s no one else who could say the same thing while meaning anther thing with the same expertise as the superstar.

    • Vinnie I didn’t read a bit of that – just saw my name at the top –

      Funny I think you crushing on me as hard as you crushing on Vick since now it seems you REALLY can’t keep my name out your mouth.

      It’s okay. I have that affect on men. 😉

  35. To be totally honest I was done with Vick last year. When I saw Foles play and the way he looked it was just refreshing to see a pro-style QB and I was tired of Vick instantly lol. But as the season played itself out I realized Vick wasn’t the main problem. Andy and Co. had overvalued talent all over the field and no depth what so ever pushing middle of the pack players.

    For years they got away with it and its finally “fully” caught up to them. Vick learned under Andy he showed progress but regressed because the team was horrible at best as a unit.

    When Foles got a chance to play I was excited to at least see what he had. I think he played ok but he was not as good as I thought with his throws. His arm is not that impressive and he locks onto guys. Still with work and experience he could be something

    Once we got a new coach that changed the picture. At first I did not want a Visor wearing college coach, but since he is been here I see is style and respect it. If Foles can play in it remains to be seen, but being a second year player learning a new Offense this is like year one all over again. With Vick he is a veteran that you know can play Kelly’s style. There are a lot of question marks on the roster and holes to still be filled. There is no need to march Foles out there because if it goes bad it won’t be all his issue yet it will affect him going forward. This fan base will rush to judge and it also could be bad for Kelly. If Vick is bad or the team struggles you can go to Foles. If Vick is good chances are he will be hurt at some point you can still go to Foles who has been learning, and chances are Vick is still not back next year anyway. Even if Foles does sit two years it won’t hurt him if he is any good same way it didn’t hurt Aaron Rogers.
    Moral to the story is stop crying and let the coach do his job because chances are he knows what “he wants” to do better than any of us and if Vick starting is his choice that means Foles is A: Not ready B: Not capable of playing in his system C: not that good D: Vick has outplayed him

    • Vick is a one year solution IF he starts.

      It doesn’t matter how well he plays – it’s a one year audition for him (assuming he lays well) to land a comfy contract somewhere to end his career.

      He won’t be the QB here in 14 – now whether that mean Foles or Barkley (I think they are high on Barkley) get the nod, or we draft another QB I don’t know.

      • This year they want to play as well as possible but at the same time its all evaluation. Vick want to win now so he will push the team to try and compete because the clock is ticking for him. This team needs to have that mindset to start the season at least. With a young Foles back there you do get the element of necessary growing pains if he was to start, and also young players growing with him. however I don’t think Kelly has the players in place he wants yet to begin that process. Once he finds out what he has then you will see things start to come together. Like you said though the person he is building around may be Barkley in that case there is no reason to play Foles at all unless there is injury or poor play from the QB spot.
        Vick is has the best arm by far best legs by far. doesn’t take care of the ball like he should and that’s a shame bc he also is a gamer who can keep you in a game no matter what. Some of the turnovers were not his fault but at the end of the day a spade is a spade and if I wasn’t and Eagle fan and my team was playing the birds I would be waiting for that mistake to get back in the game more than I wait for Romo to fall apart in the 4th. lol He is Allen Iverson of football you have to control his environment like run the ball, play action, roll outs, option routes from Wr, throw toward the sidelines keep the game close so in the 4th quarter when he stops thinking and just has to go get the win he can do what he does best that’s mess the game up by making plays that are not supposed to be there. its a shame he has what Donovan never had and vice versa

        • “4th quarter when he stops thinking and just has to go get the win he can do what he does best that’s mess the game ”

          Actually he’s at his bet when he DOESN’T have to think too much. The hurry up offense best suits Vick – cause then he just plays. There’s not a lot of time to over think and make mistakes.

          “Like you said though the person he is building around may be Barkley in that case there is no reason to play Foles ”

          And that’s the BIGGEST reason Foles may not get the nod to start. I think they see Barkley as their guy and likely don’t want to start him this year.

  36. @nugreembol, good stuff, no doubt Vick has heart mcnabb never had, Vick just makes too many mistakes, his career bears that out, and that’s why chip Kelly, who requires a cerebral qb, not an improviser , will not go with Vick

  37. Vick has Heart of Lion, but no Brains…He can’t protect hinself or the ball and is strictly at his best when the Play breaks down which is a handful of times a game.. he misses to no-brainer plays which could occur 90% of the time if he was decisive with the ball and his decision making .. Vick is a Schoolyard QB, nothing more, which is fun to watch at times, but won’t win in the Playoffs or even get you to the Playoffs as Vick 3 Year Eagle Career Won-Loss Record stands at 18-18 and this was after a Hot Start in 2010 when the NFL hadn’t seen him in a couple of Seasons and this is the reality of the Situation.. Vick has gone 10-13 as a Stsarter since 2011 and his Personal Stats in Passing, Yardage, TD,s Rank in the Bottom 1/4 of all NFL QB’s while his Turnovers, Negative PLays and Sacks rank among the Top …
    It’s not Rocket Science, It’s not the Color ofd his Skin, it’s not the Dog Issue, it’s the Fact the Mike Vick is simply an Average QB in terms of Production and being a “Winner” and this is why I don’t want any part of him in a rebuilding process of the Eagles, it simply makes little sense moving forward to have him on the Roster.. Time to move on….

    • perfectly stated paulman, now end of discussion, let’s move on

    • I agree Paulman. There is nothing to gain by having Vick in the QB conversation.

      The two read/option quarterbacks are the two oldest quarterbacks on the roster. If Kelly runs a heave read/option offense that turns out to be a success what will he do when Vick goes down? Go to Dixon? Is Dixon the future QB for the Eagles?

      The two young QBs that are likely the future starters are ill-suited to run a read/option. Why install an offense that you QBs of the future can’t run? I don’t get it….

      Kelly could be out of here before he get’s a franchise QB in place if he wastes too much time on a broke-down marginal veteran QB like Vick.

  38. Why I dismiss anyone who ever writes, “But the players want ______________” or “_________________ is the leader they want”

    On Marc Sanchez:
    ““I believe so,” Mangold said to the New York Post when asked if the rest of the locker room hopes Sanchez wins the job. “I haven’t walked around with a pen and paper and taken a poll, but from the feeling I get, the locker room wants to win. Whoever gives us the best chance to do that, we want out there — and at this point, Mark gives us that best chance.”

    “I think Mark is a fantastic quarterback for us, and I think he can do some good things,” Mangold said. “He showed some good flashes in the spring, getting [new offensive coordinator Marty Mornhinweg’s] system down and commanding the offense way that he should be. We’ll see how training camp plays out, but either way, the competition will make him a better player.”

    In Philly “Vick gives us the best chance” In NY “Mark gives us the best chance”


    on a side note….MM’s system is very friendly. Just about every QB (ave you know who) improved under him…so perhaps Sanchez will have a good season. Doubt it though.

    Oh….and you read it TS.

    • I don’t know Vinnie. As soon as you disagree with her, you don’t know anything. Best way to win the debate on Gcobb is to put down people and belittle their opinion. Don’t bring facts and stats to make a rational argument. I remember that’s why I stopped posting because of the infuriating personal statements meant to defend the undefendable.

      • in the end its all they have… its fun to get ’em riled up and watch them deteriorate.

        No, really he’s good.
        No, really he’s good. He just is…..because I said so.
        No, really he is and if you don’t see it you’re just a hater
        No, really he’s good and if you don’t see it you’re a racist.

        Standard operating procedure for those with nothing else to say.

        Because there is nothing else to say.

      • So your saying TS has a record of insulting people and calling them names when she disagrees with them? If you can show me where she does so arbitrarily I’d appreciate it. I don’t believe she does. I’ll stand corrected if you can show me. Her RESPONDING to another poster doing the very think you claim she’s doing doesn’t count. You know like what I’ve been seeing from many posting in this very thread just because she doesn’t want to join the hate vick brigade.

        You got a guy calling her a cunt and tranny because of her OPINION and not one poster who DISLIKES Vick called this behavior out. Just trying to get a gauge on your selective outrage.

  39. “Oh….and you read it TS.”

    You’d like to think that – truthfully i just scan to see if you say my name – it’s cute actually – now you’re obssesed with two people you’ve never met.

    “As soon as you disagree with her, you don’t know anything.”

    Actually I’ve never really said anything to you – while I don’t agree with your stance you’re not a complete ass like some of the others so there’s no really no need to comment.

    • No, I said Vinnie’s stats were usually Spot on. You replied that anyone that thought that doesn’t know a thing about stats. I appreciate your judgement there…Since Ive been pretty respectful to everyone as long as they are respectful to me. Again, Please bring some back up to your opinions or all it is…is opinion. Look at his career stats and record…mediocre at best. Comparing Vick to a 6 game starter is also illogical. Even if Vick is named the starter is that a Victory for him or the Eagles? This entire ongoing debate makes no sense…For this team he should never have been resigned.

      • yes that last part is my opinion.

        • ” You replied that anyone that thought that doesn’t know a thing about stats”

          Sorry if you took offense to that – but the truth is Vinnie’s stats are EASILY debunked and have been debunked by more than one poster on this site – REPEATEDLY – so like I said – saying his stats are spot on generally means a person doesn’t really understand stats – what they can and cannot tell you and how they can be used to back up any argument you want to make when taken out of context.

          • lol I totally disagree with you. I think a lot of people on here see what they wanna see. Then they toss the stuff relevant to other arguments away. Stats are easily obtainable, the point is you disagree with his conclusions. I happen to think the stats clearly back up a lot of his conclusions. Football Wise.

      • That was an interesting ending to your comment “for this team he should never have been resigned” so lets think about this…why on earth would the Eagles resign Vick and not just go with Foles?

        • Good luck getting a straight answer on that one RT

        • In my opinion as a safety net. You only saw the kid for 6 games last year, so your not sure if the kid will progress or regress. You know what you have in Vick, a 33 yr old veteran that can hold the position for a year. That is the logical reason why you resign him. My reason for not resigning him besides letting younger guys with more potential upside playing is exactly what is going on here and in the media. It’s nonsense, you don’t need that garbage with a team that’s turning over the roster and bringing in young guys. Especially from a guy thats not that good. Bottom line he isn’t worth it.

      • So lets talk about one of the stats that Vinnie likes to throw out there about Vick…and lets do some debunking…. one of the myths in regards to Vick’s defeciencies…that you hear over and over again….drop back to release stat.

        One issue with Vick is Vick holds the ball too long, some say…Foles drop back to release was 2.7 seconds…Vicks drop back to release was 3.0 seconds….

        1. Russell Wilson: 3.35 seconds, on average
        2. Colin Kaepernick: 3.18 seconds, on average
        3. Robert Griffin III: 3.07 seconds, on average

        What does this say? is it a coincidence that the fastest QB’s in the league are at the top of the list, I think not… It says that QB’s who scramble, buy time have inflated drop back to release statistics than those statue QB’s as they should…But don’t you think that 2.7 is a little high for a pocket passing QB’s like Foles who does not possess speed.

        But does the play calling impact the QB getting the ball out?

        Here some drop back to pass stats game by game…
        Browns 3.2 seconds
        Ravens 3.3 seconds
        Cardinals 3.43 seconds
        Giants 3.15 seconds
        Steelers 2.87 seconds
        Lions 2.74 seconds
        Falcons 2.73 seconds
        Saints 2.92 seconds
        Cowboys 2.56 seconds
        Giants 2.73 seconds

        This shows coaching staff took more of an effort to call plays that would allow the QB to get rid of the ball quicker..

        Vicks last 6 starts 2.79 seconds
        Foles starts 2.7 seconds

        This stat means absolutely nothing…some plays the ball is out in 4 seconds some play in 1 second, play calling has a lot to do with it…its not always about the QB.

        • The drop back to release stat has been debunked about a gazillion times. It doesn’t account for negative or positive plays –

          QB 1 – drops back gets sacked
          QB 2 – drops back makes a 5 yd completion
          QB 3- drops back avoids the sack gets back to the LOS

          The lat guy is going to have a longer hold time than the first guy – but his play didn’t result in any negative yardage.

          It is no coincidence that the more mobile QBs hold the ball longer – they are running more and will often cross the LOS with the ball still in their hands and that’s when PFT stats stop – either when the player is sacked or when the ball has crossed the LOS.


          But people like to repeat things without thinking about them or checking the methodology.

        • Vick was also sacked the 5th fewest of any QB in the league in 2011.

          Kinda hard for that to be true if he’s holding onto the ball too long.

          just saying.

        • Ill be honest I don’t put much into the release time myself, but a lot of football pundits do. I can’t pull up stats ATM but I would like to see where AR, PM, TB and DB, fall on the release chart myself.

          TS you guys can’t have it both ways. You say his Offensive line sucked in 2011 but he was the 5th least sacked QB in the league? Which is it? I agree with that stat actually I thought the line was good in 2011…QB mad some awful decisions…last year line sucked too. BTW how do you defend him throwing into the screens during mini-camp and OTA’s? That is kinda ridiculous…they don’t move and you aren’t gonna get hit?

          • Offensive line was good against the run and “meh” against the pass ranked 12th – they were HORRIBLE at the beginning of the year Hermans in particular – Mudd cursed their asses out a few times on the side lines ’cause of their shitty play. They got better as the year progressed.

            It’s not either or.

            “BTW how do you defend him throwing into the screens during mini-camp and OTA’s?”

            He hit the screens 2x – and they do move – they are attached to real people – Vick is pretty bad at getting lines batted down at the line – those numbers dropped significantly from 2011 to 2012 – looks like the screens were working ’cause if he were hitting them like he was in 2011 he would have hit them more than twice.

            I never said Vick was perfect – I jsut say he isn’t nearly as bad as ya’ll make him out to be.

  40. I was not aware that the offensive line played against the run or the pass TS. Thank you for enlightening me.

  41. To clarify – The Defensive Line is typically called on to play AGAINST the Run and / or Pass Rush.

    The Offensive line typically Pass Blocks or Run Blocks. Although with Juan moving from O to D maybe you have discovered the real hidden truth of what happened. (Yeahhhh)

  42. Just busting your girly stones.

    I know you mean that the line was better run blocking than pass blocking but the reality is that they were terrible at both. (HERE is were I get away from the statistics and ask you to tell me what you saw) I saw defenders in the back field almost Instantly on many many plays.

    I saw over the past 2 years Mike Vick drop and run right away because he knew there was no protection at times. (This is not what you want a QB to do in MY OPINION)

    I saw Foles move one or two steps in the pocket and attempt throws more often. (This is what I want a QB to do IN MY OPINION)

    It is not about who has more athletic talent (Vick is truly touched by god as an athlete) but about who has a higher Peak as a QB in the NFL. At this point I believe that will be Foles. Possibly Barkley but I saw some good things in Foles.

  43. That should read God.

  44. “Just busting your girly stones.”


  45. This is some of the worst football analysis I have ever read in a forum…bottom line…Mike Vick will start because he fits what Chip Kelly wants to do…Period. Criticism of Vick that fails to take into account some of the worst coaching we have ever seen from the inept, Andy ‘Passaholic’ Reid is criticism that should be ignored…whether it is from the talking heads in the media or guys in forums like ‘Paulman’…its all biased bull!

    • koolbreeze ..agreed.

      The team sucked ass under Reid even when Foles played. He promoted the damn offensive line coach to defensive coordinator when even the offensive line sucked ass under Castillo. He brought in pathetic offensive linemen like Andrews and Bell paying big time money for these human turnstiles. DRC sucked ass, the special teams coach was pathetic, the defensive line coach was crazy, Howard Mudd’s scheme was shit, the drafts for the last 2 years under Reid reeked vomit, the whole secondary put together was the worse in Eagles history, yet there’s guys here that blame the Eagle’s failures on the one guy who played with heart and fought against all odds while putting his body on the line.

      They point to Vick’s interceptions near the goal line.


      Andy Reid expected Vick to succeed throwing the ball 80% of the time, but Chip Kelly won’t allow such play-calling.

      Vick deserves a shot to run an offense that actually is tailored to his skill set and if he fails in this offense then he should and will be out of football.

      This offense was made for Michael Vick and that’s why they gave him the roster bonus and agreed to restructure his deal.

      This year will determine Vick’s future and if he is as horrible as guys claim then you really have nothing to worry about because he’ll be gone.

      It’s almost as if guys are more afraid Vick will succeed with the “Read Option” that could result in a new contract.

      If you’re not afraid and Vick is responsible for the pathetic few years then your wishes will come true after he fail again this season.


  46. This year will determine Vick’s future and if he is as horrible as guys claim then you really have nothing to worry about because he’ll be gone.

    It’s almost as if guys are more afraid Vick will succeed with the “Read Option” that could result in a new contract.

    If you’re not afraid and Vick is responsible for the pathetic few years then your wishes will come true after he fail again this season.


    And we all get to watch another wasted season proving that Mike Vick cant play.

    We’ll see long it takes Vick to kill Chip Kelly’s career if he is dumb enough to let him lead this team.

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