One of our readers scorpiodsu put the following information in our comments and I thought it was pertinent in our examination of this current Eagles football team.
I heard a caller on the radio yesterday, who called out the poor drafting as one of the main reasons for the ineffectiveness of the defense. There’s no question that the defensive drafting over the last five years hasn’t been good.
Defensive end Bryan Smith looked like a high school kid, who had gotten lost on the way to his high school game. Offensive linemen felt guilty about pushing him around because they felt like they were beating up on a little kid.
What can you say about Victor Abiamiri, who can get hurt by sitting down at his locker. Somebody should be arrested for starting Quintin Demps in the NFC Championship game.
I do think the defense has some problems, but they weren’t the main reasons the Eagles loss to the Packers on Sunday.
Scorpiodsu’s comments
Look at our defensive picks under Andy. Out of all these picks we probably had 5-6 guys that actually contributed and had some decent-to-good years. Many of these guys didn’t belong in the league or are just backups that we were looking to have big impacts. Just sad. I didn’t include last year because it’s too early to fully judge them.
1999
LB Barry Gardner
S Damon Moore
DT Pernell Davis
2000
DT Corey Simon
2001
LB Quinton Caver
DE Derrick Burgess
2002
CB Lito Sheppard
S Michael Lewis
CB Sheldon Brown
LB Tyreo Harrison
DE Raheem Brock
2003
DE Jerome McDougle
DE Janaal Green
DB Norman LeJeune
2004
DB Matt Ware
DB JR Reed
DB Dexter Wynn
2005
DT Mike Patterson
LB Matt McCoy
S Sean Considine
DE Trent Cole
DT Keyonta Marshall
LB David Bergeron
2006
DT Broderick Bunkley
LB Chris Gocong
LT Omar Gaither
DT LaJuan Ramsey
2007
DE Victor Abiamiri
LB Stewart Bradley
CB Rashad Barksdale
2008
DT Trevor Laws
DE Bryan Smith
S Quintin Demps
CB Jack Ikegwuonu
LB Joe Mays
LB Andy Studebaker
2009
DB Macho Harris
LB Moise Foku
You can email your comments and questions to Garry@GCobb.com.
this is the difference between dynasties and our Eagles.
We must be able to hit at a higher percentage in the 1st three rounds. Some might say we make up for it in the later rounds but what we fail to understand is those late rounders are just adequate, not game changers. The 1st 3 rounds is where you get the game changers,,,
And it don’t help when you have a coach by the name of Segrest coaching young talent
LMAO…I thought Matt Ware would be the next Bobby Taylor
Agree Songs,
and it doesn help when you have a history of trading out of the 1st and 2nd Rounds like they have done the last few years to get more bottom end draft picks..
Look at last Year– Before Howie went into the “let’s make a deal” mose, The Eagles had like 7-8 selections of the top 125 players within the 1st 4 rounds..
Instead they traded away 2 3rd Round picks to move up 11 spots to get Graham
and the Trade a 2nd Rd Selection to the Cowboys (who took ILB Sean Lee who will be a starter for the next 8 years and will come back to haunt the Eagles)
When you look at last year, in which DE,CB position were a priority
they used 5 Draft picks to get Graham (1st and 2 3rds Rd picks) who is probably a rotational DE at best, Teo Neisham (3rd Round Pick which most had as a Round too soon) who is another Gocong and too small to play down lineman and not athletic enough to play OLB and R Sapp (5th Rd pick) who again is too small and not strong enough at the point of attack to be a down lineman DE,
Sapp can maybe be a Joker and play 5-10 snaps a game and SPecail teams..
Horrible job on the top end of the Draft last Season, I will give them credit in picking up some good solid players in the 4th/5th/6th &7th but like Songs stated,but no real game changers in that group
When they annouced the trade on moving up in the 1st I was excited thinking they were selecting
S Eric Thomas, but when they annouced B Graham, I knew it was a mistake then as I do now..
Graham will be a decent player and probably be like a D Tapp.. give you 25-30 plays a game,
end up with 6-8 Sacks a year but not a dynamic, game changer where opposing teams will have to
specifically game plan for him (S Eric Thoams will end up playing 10 years and will probably be a All-Pro for 6-7 of the years and will make lots of big plays over his career…)
I am a full time worker in the transportation business, A father of 2 teenagers and an avid football fan, and I can see this from where I sit then to where I sit now,How can a Team’s Scouting Department and Professionals in Eagles Front Office and Coach AR and staff not…
I find this hard to believe and to be honest inexcusable.. I can see reaches made in 4th/5th/6th Rounds like a Jack Ike was a couple of years back, But M McCoy, Bryan Smith,J Green, M Ware, Gocong,V Abiamri, Teo, all within the 1st 3 Rounds is a horrible track record..
I have to take a walk out in the snow …
Lets look at the New England Patriots draft class 1999 – 2009
1999
LB Andy Hall of fame Katzenmoyer
DB TOny George
DB J Juan Cherry
So basically no one
2000
CB The incomperable Antwan Harris
DT Dave Nugent
Wow…..they grabbed 2 hall of famers here
2001
DT RIchard Seymour
CB Brock Williams
DB Hakim Adrimal Akbar
CB Leonard Myers
LB TJ Turner
So….they get one pro-bowler and 4 used car salesmen
2002
DE Jarvis “I was the whole drafe” Green
2003
DE Ty Warren
FS Eugene Wilson
DT Dan the Man Kleko
CB Asante Samuel
CB Tulla Banta Cain
Their best draft with 2 starters and a sometimes probowl CB in Samuel
2004
DT Vince Wilfork
Marquise Hill
Christian Morton
One player and 2 scrubs
2005
CB Ellis Hobbs
LB Ryan Claridge
A guy we wanted run off the team a few weeks back and a scrub
2006
LB Jeremy Mincy
DT LeKevin Smith….I wonder if he knows that in French his name is THE Kevin Smith
DB WIllie Andrews
Wow…3 homeruns here
2007
DB Brandon Meriweather
DT Kareem Brown
DB Mike RIchardson
One starter and 2 guys
2008
LB Jarod Mayo
CB Terrence Wheatly
OLB Shawn Crable
DB John White
LB Bo Ruud
One solid starter in Mayo and 4 guys already tossed on the scrap heap
2009
DB Pat Chung
DT Ron Brace
DB Darius Butler
OLB Tyrone McKenzie
DE Stryker somebody….named after 80’s Christian metal band??
DT Myron Pryor
DT Darryl Richard
So I’m pretty sure Chung and Butler are contributing, but its early…
So….what did they get over the same period? 3 pro bowlers….Seymour, Samuel.Wilfork (did he make it?)…1 rising star…Mayo…a handful of starters Warren, Hobbs, Meriweather, Chung, Butler…..and the rest scrubs
How many of those guys actually played more than a couple years with the Pats??
How exactly is this different or better then Simon, Burgess, Sheppard, Lewis, Brown, Brock, Paterson, Cole, Bunkley and Stewart?.
It’s funny this subject came up because it’s exactly what was on my mind over the last few days. This exactly why the Birds come up short every year. While they must be given credit for finding some good, solid players in the later rounds, they have REALLY missed on their high picks for Defense. Then to compound the problem we hear about how these players are fringe pro-bowlers while it’s pretty obvious they are not. Perfect example is M Patt and B Bunk, 2 high picks that we can see are solid back-up material at best. The other issue I believe is that while the Birds seem to make a smart choice letting certain players move on, their replacements are rarely improvements Examples- Trotter (the first time), Michael Lewis, C Emmons, S Brown, T Spikes, etc. Think of the players who have filled these positions over the last several years, for some of them we still do not have a legit starter. It’s great that we have found some solid players in the draft, but most of them are good backups/depth, but not the playmakers needed to win a SB………………………..
because they (Patriots) have better schemes and better overall Coaching..
Beliechek if he is one thing, is very unpredictable and flexible in his schemes from game to game to half to half.. Many times, he’s on the sideline with his entire Defensive Unit after a long drive by the oppoenents and changing things up right on the spot.
He is a master at stopping what a team likes to do or has a tendancy to do
vinnie, the difference is that the Patriots have a better coach. When you have great coaching like they do in their head coach and the coordinators they had in Weis and Crennel you are able to make lemonade out of lemons. Andy isn’t that bright. I’ll give it to him, he can coach QBs but we don’t have the coaching like the Pats to draft bums. Period. And let’s not forget, Beliechek is a defensive coach. Not like “Shot Gun” Andy.
You can’t draft bums all the time while your good players are getting older. The Pats (starting with the QB) have been able to keep a good offense WITH a good defense. Please stop comparing us to the Pats. They are the gold standard and we are no where near it.
And Vinnie you can look at the Pats drafts and conclude to this. They haven’t won a Super Bowl since they beat us. So their poor drafting hasn’t help them anymore. They were able to capitalize with talented guys they had, combine that with a HOF QB and a BALANCED offensive scheme to win. Reid did nothing but say our WRs were good enough while wasting all the defensive talent we had. Just stop it. Their coach is light years better than ours.
I agree that the Pats clearly have better coaching. I only posted this because the article (and headline) implies that the Birds draft terribly. The article is about the Bird’s poor drafting…I’m just pointing out that the “gold standard” team drafts as poorly (or worse) than The Birds…and everyone else for that matter.
The draft is a complete crapshoot. The Birds hit on some guys, whiff on most others….just like every other team in the league. That’s why I liked the strategy this year of scooping up the greatest # of players possible…more odds a couple would turn out.
I, like it seems many others heere, would like Eagles’ to change strategies (or at least mix it up a bit) and draft some defensive players larger than 250lbs, but you can’t really fault their drafting success…..they’ve got some good players on the list.
The difference is when the Pats hit with top 3 round picks, they are Pro Bowlers (or at least very solid starters). Seymor, Wilfork, Mayo, and Merriweather are all pro bowlers. The best defensive players the Birds have drafted have been Lito, Simon, and Sheldon Brown. Might be one pro bowl there in Lito. The rest are either avergae players or monumental busts. Laws, Abiamiri, Bunkley, McCoy and McDougle all should be starting on this defense…..3 of them are out of the league and Laws and Bunkley are MAJOR busts.
You can call it coaching, but it’s more talent evaluation and drafting guys who just don’t have the size to be NFL starters.
You win Super Bowl with both. Why is andy reid coaching here yet. 1) Does not run 2)does not get missing pieces(wr’s in past) LB’S, QB’s(needs pocket passer no interceptions in playoffs), 3)don’t use players well 4)clock management
Andy, as a offensive genuis,should know running opens passing game, Super Bowl teams run(allstot,Dillon,Faulk ran over us) even Manning only won when Colts ran Brady lost (SB against Giants)cause they did not run,Saints no chance this year without it
Before TO and Stallworth we needed a 1# WR, more players to stop the run was needed all of Andy’s tenure(lol can’t win SB if they are running over ya)
he destroyed Westbrook.Scary thing is he could have been better longer. knowing Westrook is injury prone from the start. he should have had a bruising back plus even with the $ west got doesn’t mean u play him every down and get hit all of the time.
game of inches , clock management enough said
Vinnie, I do agree that the draft is a crapshoot but some teams are more successful at it. Especially in certain areas. For instance I think we’ve been pretty good when it comes to skilled players in the past 3-4 years and I’m sure many other teams have been bad. We lack the same kind of success on the defensive side of the ball. Regardless of what others teams do, it’s important what we do. And we fail on that side.
LOOK FELLAS…”WE NEED A NEW HEAD COACH”, AR HAD JUST AS MUCH TIME AS #5 AND WE’RE STILL TALKING THE SAME CRAP AT THE SAME TIME EVERY YEAR. WE NEED A NEW COACH AND PLAYBOOK. EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE CAN PREDICT AND KNOWS OUR PLAYS AND I’M SICK OF IT. I SAY GET RID OF ANDY BEFORE HE WASTES ANOTHER 5 YEARS OF GOOD TALENT AND “ALMOST AND WHAT IF’S” COME PLAYOFF TIME. Peace.
I read lots of good arguments for both sides.
I do think the Pats have done better with their high draft picks, and when you take into consideration that we traded out of the first round and traded down for several years, it only makes matters worse. Still, it comes down to the same problem that Reid has had for many years – arrogance.
Reid is intent on proving the world wrong that his “system” is above everything, talent included. He wasted McNabb’s entire career with average receivers. Any idiot on the planet would surmise that if you’re going to pass more than every other team in history, it might be a good idea to have better receivers than every other team in history.
We traded down and out because his system didn’t require top-tier talent.
We place a low value on linebackers because of his “system.”
We let go of key veterans because of his “system.”
Akers will probably become a casualty of his money-saving “system.” I’ve seen too many teams struggle without a kicker for years. It costs them field position, which in turn lowers the team’s scoring, which in turn places unnecessary pressure on the team’s defense. There’s a trickle down effect to these types of things. When you consider that Akers has been the team’s highest scorer for years, I don’t want him gone for the sake of a few more dollars in Billionaire Lurie’s pockets. In my opinion, that would be like cutting both of our starting receivers.
If the draft is such a crap-shoot then we wouldn’t trading down lessen our odds? In craps, because of the mathematical probabilities, you don’t bet a “5” the same as you would an “8.”
Wouldn’t the same hold true in the draft? Even if you get a 5th rounder who makes the team, don’t you have a better chance in the 1st round of grabbing a pro-bowler?
If there’s no distinct difference, why not trade your 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounders for a bunch of 6th rounders? And, how many times have the Pats traded out of the 1st round?
Scorp, Congrats!
tydm
Do you know how many picks Brady has thrown in the playoffs? 18!!!
And Manning has thrown even more. He also threw a pick to end last year’s Superbowl.
So, who, exactly, is good enough for your team?
Maybe if AR had decided that stealing other teams plays was the way to go and the Eagles would have won a couple of Superbowls, but would the same AR somehow then be considered a “Football Genius” like Belichick? Really? C’mon guys.
It’s a game of inches on the field and in the war room. Cheating makes a HUGE difference, having consistently poor drafts where no players make the team for multiple years makes a HUGE difference, not knowing for what position and when to get a free agent vs. drafting a position player is HUGE. Ultimately, from my standpoint the problem is personnel and nothing this year happened to make me believe that defensive slide has stopped at all. After seeing Mike Williams come back from where he was with the Seahawks I still always think the Eagles should have allowed Jerome McDougle to play after he had that good summer camp and pre-season the guy was finally healthy and got displaced by Chris Clemmons who’s now playing (pretty well) for the Seahawks. The Eagles misevaluate a lot of people.
DRUMMER – EXACTLY
ANDY GREED WASTED MCNABB IN HIS PRIME.
HE IS THE ONE WHO SAID HE WAS HAPPY WITH THE WR’S WE HAVE.
I Remember a play by play guy watching McNabb and the Eagles and saying we did not have one WR that could start on another NFL team. That was pathetic.
A coach that wants to pass every down and still does not have a team built for it. How do you draft these FAT OUT OF SHAPE GUARDS and expect them to be quick and nimble Pass blockers?
We NEVER JUST DRAFT A DAMN FOOTBALL PLAYER!
It always has to be….
“He can play both guard and tackle” BUT does he play either one at a high level???
or
“He was a the all time sack leader in college at DE, but we are going to change him to a outside linebacker.” We see dead people. We see more than you do.
or
MY FAVORITE. TORN ACL GUY. We will pick him up in the draft or in Free Agency. We don’t care. As long as he has a TORN ACL. He is our guy. Cheap Cheap Cheap. We are going to waste a roster spot for 1 to 3 years waiting for him to rehab and show the world how SMART we are.
Just do like Dick Vermeil did. Draft the best damn football player on the board. I remember when we had Frank Lemaster and Bill Bergey and Drafted Jerry Robinson. We had 4 stud LB and a real defense.
When the Giants had LT and Harry Carson, nobody knew who their defensive line or secondary was but that ton of talent at the LB spot made their defense dominating.
Seth Joyner….Yea, that’s a football player.
This is a sissy football team with WRs looking for the ground. No impact linebackers. Want some proof just go to NFL.com and look at the EAGLES PACKERS LOWLIGHTS.
They show a Greenbay drive were Greenbay is in a fullhouse backfield (1st sign its a run). The offensive line blast out(2nd read that its a run. I was taught that in high school football)
The Eagles have 8 in the box. So Mcdermott made the right call. Look at ALL THREE LINEBACKERS. Somebody please tell me What the Fudge was Moses Fokou thinking??? Completely unblocked and he waits until the RB passes him to even try to get an angle on him. Even though the other 2 linebackers are in position, they get blown off the ball by the Packer fullback and offensive lineman. In fairness as I froze the tape a few times it looked like a DB playing LB, but that comes down to talent. You could put Dawkins in the boxe and expect him no demand that he make a play …and he would.
They Got Rid of Heckert. Roseman is Better. Alot of the players he drafted have play and done what 7th rounder are supposed to do. Be average.
As Scorp pointed out. You have to get a couple, Just a couple of IMPACT players in the 1st and 2nd round. We a horrible in that regard. 3 number one draft picks on the defensive line and they were average. No PRO BOWLERS.
And what about all the wasted number one picks on Linebackers?? Oh thats right. We have passed on Linebackers every year that 400lb man has been in charge.
400lb man has gone as far as he can go with his system. It will allow you to beat the scrub teams and split with the good ones. “by their fruits you will know them” Matthew 7:20 That means you judge a person by what they do not by what they say. In 12 years Andy has refused to ADJUST. Therefore he has not won. Great coaches ADJUST. Great coaches put their personel in a position to win. That means when you have a QB getting killed and a suspect defense. You run the ball to slow down the blitz. Make manageable 3 downs and rest….rest…..your defense. And it gives your defensive coaches more time inbetween drives to analyze the photos and MAKE ADJUSTMENTS!
The playoffs bring Equivelant talent and coaching together. You have to be able to ADJUST. The Packers Adjusted and ran the ball. Even though they are not a running team. We have a RB with a 5.2 average per carry and we won’t use him. If Shady was a scrub we would be saying “we have to draft a RB” no we have one. The 400lb man will not use him. There you have it. Even if we had the talent Andy would not know what to do with it.
I wish there was a way we could put JIM BROWN and Walter Payton in there prime, on this team. Andy would still pass. Even if Pinkston and James Thrash were the starting WRs.
No winning is not good enough. Every other team in the NFC EAST has Multiple…Multiple Superbowls. Even after beating the Cowboys…What’s the first thing out of their fan’s mouth..How many Superbowls have the Eagles won?? The Saints and the Bucs have a Superbowl. Philadelphia is a big Media Market and the fans support the team. There is no reason. Detroit has put together a good coaching staff. They have drafted high and gotten Studs. They have a dome, which means if they get home field advantage they can take the 2 step into the big game.
They will win a superbowl before the Eagles as long as Andy is coaching.
Great stuff on here today….
I think Andy has a choice to make… Either he improves his offensive and defensive lines and makes them excellent in order to run the game the way he likes (pass heavy, no hots or audibles, no adjusting)..
Or
He changes his approach and runs the ball more, gives his Qb more options to change plays/plans at the line of scrimmage.
Ive said it before, he is a great overall coach, but he is hard headed and it has kept him from winning the big one….. We can all see it clearly and he needs to own up to this and fix it this offseason..