The Toronto Blue Jays expressed interest in both Cole Hamels and Shane Victorino last week. The Blue Jays executives wanted to see how high the asking price would be for the two all-stars, but they were merely testing the water, and talks were not serious. The Jays have also approached several other teams including the Marlins and Mariners about top players, Jose Reyes and Felix Hernandez, who have had slow starts to the season.
The teams poor start to the season ultimately begs the question, would the Phillies actually consider trading either of Hamels or Victorino? The Phillies may explore trade options but unless some rambunctious general manager with a bunch of prospects puts together a heck of a package, neither of these soon-to-be free agents will be dealt.
Hamels is off to a great start, and like many players in their contract years, he’s attempting to solidify himself as one of the elite in order to maximize his incoming payday. He has six wins already, and backs his victories earned run average of 2.48, the lowest on the team. He pitches an average of seven innings per game, and still has plenty of great baseball left in him at the young age of 28.
Victorino hasn’t had the same success that Hamels has had to start the year. The Flyin’ Hawaiian is batting just .250, which is about 20 points less than what he usually tallies. Although his average is down, the speedy centerfielder has already blasted five homeruns, and knocked in 17 runs. It is obvious he has taken it upon himself to fill the voids left by the absences of Ryan Howard and Chase Utley, so it will be interesting to see if his average will increase once the two big bats return.
In regards to any upcoming blockbuster trades, the Philly faithful may be hearing Hamels’ name long before Victorino’s. Hamels is set to make at least $20 million a year, likely on a six or seven-year contract this offseason. Unless the Phillies are willing to concede to a huge contract, they may consider shipping out the once World Series MVP should Philadelphia fall out of the playoff race.
I believe Victorino will be much easier to sign. He has been openly seeking a five-year deal (which can be easily talked down through negotiations to four years), and should be asking for no more than an affordable $8-million per year.
When the Phillies consider whether or not they should resign Victorino, money isn’t even the biggest issue involved. The Phillies don’t have a prospect who can step into the role of centerfield just yet. Larry Greene is too slow to man centerfield, and both Leandro Castro and Jiwan James haven’t turned any heads in Double-A Reading.
On the other hand, Philadelphia’s young pitchers have shown a lot of promise in this early season. The Phillies’ top prospect, Trevor May has already notched his fifth win in AA, and posts a sub-three ERA in eight starts. He averages a little less than seven innings per start, but displays stellar control by having more than twice as many strikeouts as walks.
Julio Rodriguez led Philly’s minor league system with 16 wins and a 2.76 ERA last season. He’s off to another great start with three wins and no loses in eight starts playing for Reading this year. His fastball has consistently been getting better, but he still relies on his secondary pitches to get outs. It is hard to argue with his results, the 21-year-old has had a 1.88 ERA this season.
No matter how far Philadelphia falls out of contention, Victorino should return frankly because there is no one who can fill his role. The only way Hamels will be traded is if the Phils are significantly out of the playoff race before July, but with Howard and Utley’s returns on the horizon, chances are Ruben Amaro Jr. isn’t going to be shopping Hollywood anytime soon.
If anything trade halladay imo. Hes much older than hamels, will garner top prospects i hope, and use his money to pay hamels to a long term deal. You dont let stud starters entering their prime leave.
Which is why you don’t sign/overpay players that are past their Primes (Halladay,Lee & Rollins as examples)… Halladay/Lee have thrown a lot of innings for a lot of years, how much do their arms have left in them, surely not another 2-3 Seasons to fulfill their 20 + Million a year Salaries..
There is no way the Phils will pay 3 Starters on their Team 20 + Million while being a .500 Team and and having holes everywhere else.., someonw has to go which should be Cliff Lee and use that $$ to keep Hamels long-term.. It would be a major mistake to have HAmel’s walk and have 2 35 years old Pitchers at the top of your Roration.. Move Lee for 2-3 Players now..
I am tired od cliff lee, inconsistent, non chalant performances, attitude, we supposedly have this great pitching, have had it since 2009, and each year earlier exit, in step, from the playoffs, all the while the pitching improved, the ’08 team the pitching wasn’t even close, at least starters, this team needs timely hitting, yesterday bases loaded and the best option was wiggington? What about Ruiz from the bench, remember Matt stairs, Gregg dobbs, maybe paulman is finally correct about this team
Unfortunately I think Lee has a no trade clause in his contract. Lets face it, the Phils should have kept Lee the year they traded him to Seattle..won the World Series that year then let him walk and resigned Hamels. Now Amaro has painted himself into a corner.
per my google search..it’s a partial not trade clause
IMHO, Hamels is off limits. He’s in his prime & still on the rise. Now if your talking Lee, Blanton, Rollins, Victorino & Polanco, I’m all for it. Hamels & Pence MUST be extended. Cliff Lee & the flawed players in Rollins & Victorino, should be put on the block, immediately. If they miss the playoffs, with this starting staff & a $170M+ payroll, Amaro & Manual, both need to go.
Pman- give me a break. The phills year after year try and give us a WS- this window cant stay open for ever but i for one will be fine with a 2 year slump after this crop wears out.
News Flash to Stevo in Minnesota, This 2012 Crop of Players is Worn Out..
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Also note that NL East (outside of Braves) has been a very lame Division over the last 4-5 Seasons but as we see now, all the Teams have improved and have much more talented and younger Teams than the Phils who have stagnated and gotten old as a Team..
no denying that the phils have aged. However, they are still a really talented team. the boost they need is Howard. That is if Howard comes back a 80% of the player he was. These other teams in the division are talented but not yet as talented as the phils. wash is much improved but I need to see it over a full season. I still think the phils are the best team in the division.
Phils everyday line-up and bench are nowehere near as talented as the Braves,Nationals,or Marlins.. They just aren’t in 2012 .. The Nats probably have some of the best Talent in all of MLB (as they should with years and years of very high draft picks) with players like Desmond,Espinoza,Ramos, Strasburg,Harper.. The Braves have young position players like Freeman,Heyward, Pastornicky, plus are deep with Pitchers who are 25-26 Years old or younger..
The Marlins have some talent that are just hitting their Pimes as players like
Ramirez,Reyes, Coughlan,Morrison & Stanton are all under 28 years old and Morrison is 24 withStanton only 22 years old..
In Comparison I see the Phils with Pence,Galvis as players under 30 years of age.. I don’t foresee Dom Brown ever being a everyday MLB player, he just doesn’t have it .. . I see Phils with some great Starters in Doc and Lee who have logged lots of Innings on their arms as they approach thier mid-30’s, their best years are clearley behind them…If the lose Hamels because of $$$, this Phillie Franchise will be right back near the botttom of the standings .. It’s amazing to me that the Phils have been so good for what, 5-6-7 years now , that they haven’t been able to developed any postioin players during this time frame.. Is Dom Brown the prize of the position players th Phils have developed … I know you can’t have studs at every level of your Farm System, but players like Rollins,Polanco,OF have been agining for the last 2-3 Seasons, so where was the plan in place to replace them with younger talent..
paulman, how can you say the other teams in the NL east are that much better than the phillies when they phillies are in last, and only 5 games out of first ? the 3 biggest names the marlins signed are hardly worth anything, morrison and gaby sanchez are terrible, and they have MAYBE 3 players playing well for them. The nats are already falling back to earth, the braves are averages, and the mets are the mets. The whole division is terrible.
and you talk about overpaying people in their prime. Name a team that doesnt do that? if halladay left today as a free agent, he’d get the EXACT same dollar amount from the team he signs with, same goes with lee. It doesnt mean these guys are worth the money, but you sound like my father, who complains about all these overpaid players. The only way to get some of these overpaid people, is to overpay them.
The phillies sold the farm to try to win another world series, and it didnt happen. They have no farm system besides the plethora of A ball pitchers they have, they have no offensive players and have gotten rid of every single one of them. For everyone that sits and evaluates a trade involving prospects, and says “who cares, they are prospects?” this is what happens when you have no prospects, you have to overpay rollins because your 2nd baseman has zero knees, then you have to bring in a bunch of bench players to try and replace your power source, because there is noone in the farm to groom to fill these positions at a later date.
The phillies have a lot of problems, problems they will have to fix with money, not prospects… and they are running out of money
also none of this matters? 1. it is may, 2. you dont have to be the most talented team to win the world series.. 3 if they get hot when the playoffs start, that is all they need (if they even make it)
my point exactly Zoltek, they are running out of $$ because they continue to overpay old players every year without obtaining,developing talents..
It’s happend with Ibanez,Polanco, now Rollins and bad luck injuries to Utley and just a bad contrat with Howard to begin with ..
Signin Pitchers for $15-$20 Million per year who are on the downside of their Careers is not be best utilization of your $$, so go ahead and let the Yankees, Red-Sox sign players like Lee,Oswalt or even Halladay for the Phils have not Won a World Series with any of these Guys anyways..
ibanez honestly wasnt that bad of a signing, and rollins making 11 a year isnt horrible.
Polanco makes 6 mill a year, that is not really a contract that you can say is terrible either. They paid big money for 2 of the best starters in the game, and doing so has not won them anything. That being said, it doesnt mean they overpaid them, because again… like I said, they would get the same money from any other team in the league, and we all know lee had a higher offer. Signing those 2 guys, for that amount of money, hasn’t caused them to be knocked out of the playoffs.
The problem is they have had injury problems, and inconsistancy problems. To me they should have given galvis the SS job, and signed ramirez. They knew utley was hurt, and could of put polanco back at 2nd. That would at least have given them another bat to put around pence, when you sign rollins for 11 million, and you don’t really have a lineup spot for him… that is a problem. There is no way he should not be able to fill the 3 hole while utley is out. They did not overpay rollins, but to me they should of let him walk.
Regardless, EVERY YEAR (you can find my posts from the last how ever many seasons) they go through a rut, everyone jumps ship, and then 2 months later they are in first place. This year that will be difficult, but it will happen somehow. When you lose your 3 and 4 hitters, your bullpen can’t hold leads, and your 2nd ace you cant win games for… and you are at 500, 5 games back, and a month out from getting your 2 best hitters back… you take that every day of the week.
Ibanez was a good solid player but again, what the plan to replace him after his 3 year deal was up, we all knew last year that D Brown was not the answer short-term and possible never.. (so they bring in Mid-30 Years olds like Juan Pierre,Lance Nix, Scott Posednik)
Rollins is not worth $11 Million, sorry, it’s not even close with his poor offensive production.. If you want a good glove who will bat .230 to .240 and have 6-7 RBi’s after 40 games, you can find them anywhere for a lot less than $11 Million (Freddie Galvis is a perfenct example)
Polanco making $6 Million is a decent player, but he generates such little power produiction #;s on a team truggling for some power..
What;s the plan to replace him next years… 34 Year Old Whittington…
The make-up of this team reminds of the CHicag White Sox which is filled with aging players who are past their primes or always hurt..
Counting on anything from Utlety or Howard is Fool’s Gold not only for this Season, but moving forward, I think Howard will be ok for 2013, but 2012 is a lost season for him similar to Eagles Brandon Graham last year who should have been placed on the IR all season so as not to screw up his confidence
When you are a good team, that’s what you do. You have a high revenue stream and players want to play for them.. Look at the good teams tht have been good for the last decade.. They have older, declining players. You trade your farm players for a win now adtuide. Plain and simple.. Phil’s SHOULD win the division this year.
Phi’s are losing to the likely NL East Division Winner (the Nationals)
I stated early on in the off-season the LHP Gio GOnzales was the best overall Free-Agent signing in all of Baseball and that he would contend for NL Cy Young Award and it looks like he’s on target for a great season and is the type of Lefty that always give Phils fits..
I am not sure how many of you are aware that the Nats havehad probably the most injuries in the NL . They have been without Closer B Storen, LF M Morese, 3B R Zimmerman for most of the Season and then add RF J Werth, Catcher Ramos, CF Bernadina, Relief Pitcher Brian LIdge and your talking a lot of quality players and starters for them, so they have kep t it together pretty well considering and they have an agressive Manager in D Johnson who is a perfect leader for this NAts team and who can outmanage Charlie Manuel in his sleep…
NO EXCUSES! They are an old, boring, team on a rapid decline, with no prospects & have no salary, or payroll wiggle room. Amaro needs to be FIRED, for the job he has done with this team. Every year, he has been given more & more $$$, only to have the end results worsen every year. DON’T give me last years 102 wins either, when they got knocked off in the first round. The window has closed, & this team is absolutely un-watchable! They need to start making some trades & adding some good, quality, major league ready prospects. But as long as Amaro is making the deals, I have ZERO confidence in him adding any good young players. Look at the Lee trade for example. He also doesn’t have a double agent, like Ed Wade on the other side of the trades, to help his @$$ out either. They are 3-4 moves away from being really good again, but I don’t have faith in Amaro, AT ALL!
Also, not to mention, that he is an arrogant, lying, BS artist, who’s been coddled & silver spoon fed his entire life/ career. He only has this job because of his family name. Ed Wade & Mike Arbuckle put together the WS winning team, & Pat Gillick put the icing on the cake. Amaro has done nothing but waste millions & millions of this organizations $$$, only to have them regress every year, since his takeover. Montgomery is too loyal to a fault, & needs to not be stupid & fire his @$$. Bring back Gillick for a short time to train another GM & fire Manual & bring up Sandberg. I’m sick of watching this unbearable garbage anymore. I’m catching narcolepsy, by just watching this team. They are horrid, & this teams offense, BP & brain farts they are having, are unacceptable. With the starting pitching this team has been getting, we should be running away with this division. It’s a disgrace with the lack of run support they are getting. If anyone keeps holding out hope that Howard & Utley are going to be the magic elixir, are delusional imbeciles. UTLEY IS DONE & HOWARD ISN’T GPOING TO BE CLOSE TO 100% UNTIL NEXT YEAR. GET THROUGH YOUR HEADS!!!!!!!!!!