The Eagles should have nothing but athletic quarterbacks on their roster. Yes, non-athletic quarterbacks can run Chip Kelly’s offense, but they eliminate the effectiveness of the read option which is one of Kelly’s most effective running plays.
Kelly’s ability to design a running game is the key element that has made him so successful. It’s not his passing game or his in game decision-making that distinguished him. Kelly’s ability to spread out defenses and destroy them on the ground is the characteristic, which set him apart in college football.
Kelly’s running game isn’t the same without an athletic quarterback. The former Oregon head coach can tell us a million times that he can run his offense without an athletic quarterback all he wants, but he can’t occupy the outside defender on the read option without an athletic quarterback, who is a run threat.
Yes the Birds can run the inside and outside zone plays without an athletic quarterback, but that’s just part of Kelly’s running game. They can’t run the read option without an athletic quarterback. If Vick had been able to run on Sunday, he would have broken off some big runs against the Giants and that would have opened up the cutback for Eagles best player LeSean McCoy.
I agree with Kelly when he said yesterday, “I don’t think that people have it figured out”. He was responding to reporters asking him if defenses had figured out how to stop his offense. They haven’t figured out the offense, but they have reasoned that it makes no sense to chase Nick Foles and Matt Barkley, when they fake handoffs to McCoy. They let the quarterbacks go and hit McCoy.
Shady isn’t the same running back without the ability to cutback. He isn’t a speed back, he is a cutback running back. It took defenses a week or two to make the adjustment after Michael Vick went down due to injury.
The Eagles were able to run their inside and outside zone plays successfully against Tampa Bay’s small defensive front. McCoy ran for 116 yards on 25 carries against the Bucs.
This Sunday, the Giants held McCoy to only 48 yards on 15 carries. Last week against the Cowboys, McCoy carried the ball 18 times for only 55 yards.
Without an athletic quarterback running the Eagles offense, the cutback hole can be taken away from McCoy and his best move is the cutback. McCoy isn’t “SHADY” without the cutback and the “cutback hole” is closed without an athletic quarterback running the offense.
Kelly doesn’t put the read option in the game plan, unless Michael Vick, an athletic quarterback, is in the game. You can’t run the play unless the quarterback is a run threat. It doesn’t make any sense to have Nick Foles and Matt Barkley as the backups on a Kelly-coached football team. Every quarterback on the roster should be athletic.
Notice that when you take away an athletic quarterback, you also must take away the read option, which takes away the cutback hole, which makes McCoy just another running back.
Why not have three or four athletic quarterbacks on the practice squad? Shouldn’t the Eagles have kept Dennis Dixon around because he knows how to run Kelly’s offense and his ability to run with the ball would help open up the cutback for McCoy?
If a defense can control McCoy, the
Exactly! We have to get rid of stiffs like Barkey and Foldes and get some athletic QB’s!
unfortunately our athletic quarterback has been out for 14 of the 32 quarters we’ve played this year…. and even our unathletic one has now missed a game… there is nothing wrong witha pocket passer in the nfl…
and if they need athletic qb’s why in the hell did they wast a 4th rounder on barkley????? why? a 4th rounder adds depth at many positions and special teams play…why did the braintrust draft a non-athletic qb???
Athletic QB’s
EJ Manuel – Injured (out 6 weeks)
RG3 – Injured knee (this season) last season (torn ACL)
Vick – Pulled Hamstring (out 3 to 4 weeks again)
Mcnabb – Converted to a pocket passer
Geno Smith – Wants to be a pocket passer
Kaepernick – No Injuries preventing play
Wilson – No injuries preventing play
Terrelle Pryor – Missed 1 game already due to injury.
If you want an athletic QB, you are also asking for multiple seasons where we have down years like the Redskins are going through right now. I’d personally rather have someone like Peyton Manning or Drew Brees. How often do those guys get injured. 1 out of 10 years
Howie is our GM Ciggy, that’s why you draft Barkley…..
you can’t run a QB in the NFL.
NFL defensive players are taught to injure the QB once out of the pocket. Vinnie may have correctly wrote that Chip Kelly plays with disposable QBs at Oregon. In the NFL the drop off between 1st and 2nd string QB usually means losing season.
We need a athletic QB with a strong accurate arm. However, the QB’s whether they are pocket passers or mobile will get hurt if your O-line sucks!
U don’t actually need the QB to run. You need him to be a threat to run. A credible one. If your QB rips off a 15 yard scamper here and there, defenses are gonna play him differently.
Well…yes and no.
Kelly’s offense can work with a quarterback who can stretch the field. The problem is that are backups are not only NOT mobile they have noodle arms. They aren’t a threat deep. IF they were a threat deep, Kelly would run a more power running game, and use options packages that didn’t include a QB keeper.
But no, you can’t have a noodle arm, non-mobile QB (and receivers who can’t consistently get separation) and this offense works. All you have to do to stop it is stack the box and sit on the short routes. No one is worried about Barkley or Foles going deep OR running with the ball.
Finally..some credible football analysis not based on wishing and empty Vick-bashing! Thank you!
Makes sense, gcobb, but why did he draft Barkley and cut Dixon.
Also, Kelly repeated stated right after his hiring that he would develop an offense to fit the strenghts of his quarterback, he would fit the scheme to the personnel ,but after the giants loss he stated the game plan essentially stays the same with Barkley Foles as it is with Vick, so I have serious questions about his credibility and competency, as you should have a far different scheme with Foles, Barkley under center
Even with a running quarterback, you will need about five of them as they will get blasted or wear out like Vick
Kelly should have gone with a west coast uptempo offense with foles from the get go
Foles has plenty of hose to make the deep pass, but was not comfortable to throw deep against Dallas
And the last “atheletic/run first” quarterback to win a super bowl was? I’m waiting…
And the last team running a spread/read option offense to win a super bowl was? Still waiting…
The main point being missed by G Cobb and most Vick supporters is that this read option offense is simply a gimmick that, once figured out, is useless. This has been proven time and time again. Super Bowls are won by quarterbacks who drop back in the pocket and use their brain to make good decisions with the football. If an offense is deadly passing the football it is inevitable that the running game will be equally as effective. Look at the Rams of 99,00,and 01. When you can go downfield with the football defenses need to focus more on stopping the pass. This creates the potential for big gains in the running game. That’s how it worked in Indy as well. But hey…let’s keep pretending we’re all still in college at Va Tech.
Oh…and histrocially when these atheletic qbs no longer have the option to run, as defenses eventually figure out how to take that away, and are forced to stand in the pocket and throw they are no nearly as effective. Like I said it’s a gimmick that works in college but not in the NFL.
I refuse to be baited into commenting on this crap. In other news the Defense is playing better.
His Eyes Open!!!
I don’t completely buy this. If the only reason that Shadey is becuase of the read option and the threat of the QB running that allows McCoy to have the cutback, then how was he successful under Reid’s conventional offense?
No doubt that the read option opened things up with the threat of a running QB, but it also got that running QB hit many more times and ultimately injured by the 5th game of the season. I believe that you can have some schemes that will use the read option, but to use it at the exclusion of more conventional offenses will lead to us opening up a QB-Only Emergency Room at the Linc. We will go through QB’s faster than we can sign them off of other practice squads.
As far as Dixion is concerned, does anyone remember how poorly he threw the ball in TC? You bring him in and it will be even tougher on Shadey because they will pack the box because they know that Dixion cannot make the throws. If all it takes is a runner at QB, put Polk at QB and you have your running threat to hand the ball to Shadey who can run the read option. I have no idea how teams like the Broncos or KC can have a running game, they have two stiffs at QB who certainly cannot be looked at as threats to run in Manning and Smith. Maybe it has more to do with the scheme and executing the running scheme then just making the defense account for a running threat at QB. No doubt that makes it tougher for a defense, but it also opens up your QB to more injuries. There are other ways to be successful on offense, the read option does not need to be our only offensive plan.
If anyone suggests Dennis Dixon as a viable option at qb they should be banned from posting about anything football related…ever. That’s a desperation heave at best. Dixon stinks…hate to break it to you.
GCobb suggested it at the end of the article. Like I said above, Dixon proved to us in TC that he cannot throw the ball. He would not be a good option here, teams would only pack the box and make it tougher to run the ball because they wouldn’t respect our ability to pass the ball.
Over all, IMO, the best offesive plan is a balanced attack that prevents a defense from ignoring any offensive weapons that you may have. You need to establish that your team can both run and pass, and that you will do either out of all formations. It does not allow teams to focus on taking away one style without the threat of being burned by the other.
It has been said before, and I would tend to agree with classifying it as a gimmick, the read-option that is. You can get away with things like this in college. You recruit a style of athletic player, many of them, and when the injuries hit, you plug another athlete in and continue to move. In college, you can see teams like Navy or the AF Academy have a run focused approach and have success. That stuff would never work in the NFL, and shows a big difference between the different levels.
Greenfan who would you say looked better at Oregon,…Dixon, or Mariota?
Keep in mind Dixon was a Heisman candidate before his injury.
Also, think about the NFL reality of things, as far as, their careers being very similar on a professional level, because of a lack of NFL Skills, not athleticism…..
Reid had a fullback! This was a part of the offense…that’s another problem with Kelly’s system…we are too ‘finesse’ we dont play smash mouth football. Look at the other QB’s in the Mike Vick style-Kapernick and Russell, and RGIII..these teams have a power running game…they play some smashmouth football. We are soft…and it begins with the offensive line…we are too soft, too finesse.
Its a bad combination…Foldes and Barkley, like TsJohnson rightfully points out..cant throw the ball deep, the receivers get pushed around and cant get off of press coverage, the offensive line is soft with running game that always looking to get to the edge instead of knocking people off of the ball…all of this points to a poor offensive design which will get any QB killed!
the QB’s throwing shoulder must be protected at all cost. It you want to run you need extra deflecting pads on your shoulders. if you want to pass you need as little pads on shoulder as possible to allow the shoulder to rotate without obstruction. The 2 don’t mix in the NFL.
the only QBs who run are young on the job training, gaining experience QBs who are learning progressions and diagnosing defenses. Once a young QB learns these important traits the running stops to preserve energy and health for the game’s duration and long potential 20 game season.
Take a look around the league – the read-option is dead. Look at the Seahawks, 49ers, Redskins… all at the lower end of the rushing rankings.
If a defense wants to stop the read-option they can – you better be able to do other things. Kelly better get creative (if he can) because the league knows his game.
I would agree with you Irish. The scarey thing is, as far as offensive NFL experience on his staff, Kelly is looking to Pat Shurmer for guidence. This could get really ugly, really fast if Kelly cannot make adjustments to his offensive gameplan. As a fan I am hoping to see him step up and have the offense start playing at a high level again. We have seen it with the defense, now if they can get both sides of the ball playing well at the same time, we could actually start winning some games.
Running Your QB is STUPID!!!
Build an OL, Dominate up front and run the ball.
Get a big WR and BOOM you have an offense for a pocket passer.
G you’re right for this type of offense.. But then what do we do if this Kelly guy blows out after 2 or 3 years? GO back to non athletic QB’s for the next coach??? I feel like in a head coach we just bought the latest TV gimmick you see advertised at 2 am… Like the clapper:) Fun but never lasts…
You know what really burns me up, this BS incessant excuse making, of not being able to run the ball, because we don’t have a mobile QB! How come every team with pocket passers, have no problem running the ball every year? How come the NFL has been around for decades, with pocket passers, & never had problems running the ball before? This read option is a gimmick & a f^#@ing joke! Does anyone think maybe that’s the reason why we can’t run the ball? Where is the innovation? Where is the adjustments? Where is the so-called “Genius”? It’s a joke, & a gimmick. In shotgun all game, with the RB next to you, & you either throw the ball, hand it to the RB, or take off run, & get killed, running QB, or not! No in motion! No set plays! No innovation! No adjustments! It’s getting nauseating now, with this BS!!!!
I feel if we can’t run the ball it is because of bad Offensive Line Play, and lack of other Offensive Weapons, making it easy to defend anything Chip Kelly throws at them DCar…….It’s really that simple.
haha yojoe, you had some fun with the “clapper” ?, you could have picked a better gimmick there buddy, “clap on”, “clap off”
yojoe, you might want to sell that “clapper” to paulman, he’s looking for some cheap entertainment down in there in the hills
The clapper only works with electricity…Pman doesn’t have that luxury down in Boone. He has to run an extension cord from his neighbors trailer just to power his computer. The clapper would not be a good gift!!
Not that anyone cares,
But I have a 2 Story 2850 Square Ft home on 2 Acrew Wokd lot with no one behind me but a slope down the Maine road.. And yes I pay $1150 a year in Property Taxes and paid apprx $275k for my home which would be 400K+ in a similar type of neighborhood in the Delawre Valkey
This is one of the reasons I moved away from South Jersey 25 Years ago
Ooh and my Car insurance for 3 Vehicles
Volvo Xc-670 Wagon, Ford Expedition for the Wife and a Subaru Putback Wagon for me is about .$900 a year for all 3 Vehicles..
I have Well Water and a Seltic Tank which cost me about $150 per year to maintain.. No water and Sewage Bills for me and the Mountain Well Water is probably better than any chemical laced garbage that’s up on the Delawre Valley in a municipal well.. So Oaulman is doing quite well here in the Blue Ridge Mtns of Western NC..
I figure I have saved at least 10k a year moving away in Prperty Taxes, Insurance and Utilities alone along with a much better quality of life in a small Mountain & College Town of Boone
That I actually will be able to retire comfortably when I am 60-62 and not be married or stuck like many of my family/friends are who are still living in Philly area.. To each their own..
Paulman, you are the man,
say Hi to Eustace Conway for me Paulman
McNabb was always a Pocket QB first even when coming out of Syaracuse.. SImilar to Cam Newton who can run, but does so when forced too due to poor protection, no receivers open or just a open field of green to get the 1st Down.. but McNabb was never a Run First QB
Geno Smith is the same way, he ran very little while at West Virginia.
I heard paulman, has had the clapper once, or twice, & crabs! XD
Funny one Greefan & DCar…
>XD
The objective is not to run the QB…it is to have the threat of the Qb running for big yards….gashing the defense! Lets face it…the biggest problem on the Eagles is not the QB…its the offensive line, the poor tight end play…and weak receivers!
Agreed. QB isn’t the only problem, but is a problem, nonetheless. Receiver, & O-line always seems to be an issue.
If the objective was just the “threat” of a run, and not actual running…..
Then why was your hero leading the league in QB rushing atts/game???
Oh wait, I know why…because he doesn’t know how to throw.
If the read option requires a QB to run in order for the running game to work, then it is a joke of an offense. (I already think that it is, but just here to convince others)
QBs who run get planted. They get beat down. They lose effectiveness over the course of the season because all their ribs are cracked.
Qbs who fake the run in the RO also get planted and beat down.
RO sucks and is a nice gadget to roll out 2 or 3x a game if you have a 23 year old Kapernick, otherwise, fuck it. Its stupid.
Unquestionable truths:
Teams have had effictive run games with pocket passers for a very very long time.
Every passing rule in the game today, from pocket rules, to basically allowing holding unless egreious, to the 5 yard chuck rule, all favours the pocket passer. Especially a pocket passer who runs a crisp short passing attack.
Pocket passers miss less time than running QBs. Of course they do get hurt, and miss time. But most often their injuries are ‘catastrophic’ where they will be out for 1 whole season out of 10, whilst running QBs lose 4 games here, 3 there…hurt every year.
Finally, punishment adds up. A running QB might not get injured, but the 8-10 hits he takes aper game compared to the 4-6 hits a pocket passer takes add up. Nicks and bruises. Sore ribs, sore shoulders, sore legs, all take their toll over the course of the year, diminishing effectiveness. It is no suprise that the majority of Vick’s ‘great’ games have all come in the first halves of seasons, or that he has basically thrown 2x as many tds in the first half of games as opposed to the 2nd halves. The guy gets beat to shit.
Running QBs and any offense designed to encourage the QB to run is stupid.
We don’t know if the qb is the problem because he hasn’t played enough this season, he looked great, looked terrible, that’s how it goes with young qbs that are talented, but the sample size is too small
Anyone who thinks Foles hasn’t shown enough that he has the skills to play qb in this league at a very high level isn’t thinking rationally, there I put it kindly, what he does with his skills, how he reacts after that terrible performance, that’s the unknown, what is his mettle, his makeup that is what I want to see over the rest of this season
I am going on the strength of gmliff, though, that there is not a qb worth taking in the first round other than Bridgewater, and he’s a pocket passer as well
Here is a question for the so called genius Chip, if Foles/Barkley are in the game why even run read option plays…Seriously, how stupid can you fucking be to be calling read option plays. I don’t think Chip is cut out for the NFL. And its not even that were losing games. Just look at the stupid decisions he is making week after week.
ON top of it G, do you even read what you are saying…your asking why didn’t the eagles have 4-5 running QBs on the roster and by saying this your are admitting that the starting QB and maybe the back up will get hurt cause of their running style. Newsflash if your leaning on your 3rd or 4th athletic QB on Sundays, your not winning shit anything anyways.. Yea Dennis Dixon or some other practice squad bum who has been in this league for years and cant even stay on a team as a back up, is going to win us games. GTFO with that stupidity.
BTW its a passing league…you know what would open up holes for Shady? A pocket passer who can read a blitz and tear you up with accuracy and timely throws. Scare the opposing defense so bad that they will play the pass almost every down and ignore the box protecting the run (see Knowshon Moreno/Eddie Lacy). Thats what we need to find ASAP to win a superbowl. UNtil running Qbs actually start winning superbowls on a consistent basis, picking one now as your franchise QB just shows you have other intentions for this team
beautiful, pheags, just beautiful
Haveacigar asked the best question. Why did we draft a quarterback that couldn’t run the system and why do we need a quarterback to have a good running game? Maybe we need a different system when was the last time a athletic quarterback won the Super Bowl.
The fact is we are supposed to have a dominate, offensive line that would blow open holes in the running game…that has not happened…so the Eagles have relied more on the more ‘finesse’ run-option! If the O-line was doing its job…the run-option would not be used as much…and Shady would not be depending on it. The O-line would be moving people off the ball…and Shady would have holes to run and cut through. The O-line are getting pushed back and stuffed by linebackers! They are playing terrible! The power game has not been developed. Casey…the Eagles H-back was hurt they have not used him.
It has been a chain reaction…the running game getting stuffed…means Vick running more…the O-line giving up quick pressure…QB’s cant get it to wide receivers. Defenses in the NFL are smart…they see you cant establish the run, they see the receivers are not good beating press coverage…so they crowd you…they see the QB’s cant throw deep effectively…they are all in the box…crowding and pushing the Eagles around.
I dont care if you have Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, or Tom Brady…if your O-line and receivers are getting punked by the defense…you are going to get beat up physically….and your QB will take the brunt of that!
Stop Vick-hating and look at the game! The Quarterback is the least of the problems…even though it is obvious that Foles and Barkley are not the answer for this team. Foles choking up in the Dallas game showed that he cant handle the pressure…and Barkley’s arm is just too weak!
Koolbreeze – you are wrong. Chip Kelly wanted finesse blockers with stamina. He wanted the plays run fast every 9 seconds with passes out in 3 seconds.
DJax needs time to get open because he won’t run slants inside.
Good post kool breeze
Followed by a bad post kool breeze
followed by the new baby bluedog democrat convert to full blown Rev Jesse Jackson Rainbow coalition member — is that a Trayvon hoodie you wearing Jake, LOL
Jake the OL is dead tired holding blocks waiting for Djax to get open only to lineup — Judge this OL off a huddle not the chuck and duck
It is obvious to me that the RO isn’t going to be close to the bread and butter and if chip thinks it is they wouldn’t have drafted barkley. part 2 is just like the old triple option, wing T or whatever pro defenses are too good for this system of play– i was in a bar yesterday espousing my wisdom… in the nfl chips ‘oregon’ team is playing ‘alabama’ week in and week out… if chip doesn’t adjust he will be done in 2 years… and we will have 2 years of this shit we have seen recently. part 3 after 13 years of andy and us bitching about game management and decisions etc we have seen through 8 games that kelly thinks he is playing east missouri state and can go for 2 early in the game because he knows he will score 60… if this is a work in progress we better start to see some freaking PROGRESS– IN THE system and in game time decisions!
SOunds like more Excuses for Chip Kelly and Company
The Read Option with Speed and Sillked PLayers at QB & RB run at a High Tempo works at the College Level for obvisous reasons as Opponenets do not have he ddepth, talent of opposing COaching Skill to adjust to it..
Now fast forward to the NFL and it doesn’t work.. Every Defense from DR, to OLB to Secondary are as quick and Talented as any Offensive Skill Players.. The High Tempo can work in spurts but not over a course of a game and surely not over a course of the Season but the biggest challenge that Chip Kelly is in denial about is the level of Coaching and Scheming by Opponents Defensive Coaching Staffs that he didn’t face at the Collegiate Level..
Kelly’s insistence to keep the Read-Option as the Foundation for FOles, Barkely and even with an injured Vick tells me he is another Andy Reid which is it’s my way and I pluf in the system and you either sink or swim.. Where was all this Genius Offensive Firepower from KElly about developing Game Plans based on which QB was playing or the Opponenet or the score of game, field position, time left,etc,etc… I havenm’t seen any of it …
Chip Kelly has been a Failure in my Opinion at the NFL Level from Roster Management to Draft, to weekly Game PLanning, time Management, 4th Down COnversion Decisions… Send his Jelly Ass back to the College Ranks please .. though he made a deal with the NCAA for a 18 Month banishment from the Collge Ranks for his Recruiting Violations .. Screw Chip Kelly and his Read-Option Offense .. Bring in Lovie Smith as HC and go back to a 4-3 Defensive Scheme and let OC Pat Shurmer run the Offense with Foles/Barkley in a West Coast Offense and add some Receivers,OL and Defense
Then Add Cliff/Dcar and Paulman as Draft and Free-Agent Consultants and Eagles would be Playoff COntenders again in 2 Years time ..
Sticking with Kelly has the Eagles in a mess, a laughing stock and will become a 5 Year Rebuild Project once he leaves..
Owner Jeff Lurie, you can Pay Cliff,DCar & Paulman now, or you can Pay us Later Your Call if you want to have a legitimate shot at a Super Bowl
I already dislike Jelly Kelly and his System, 8 Weeks into his first Season.
I am Sorry I feel this way, and probably should be more reasonable and give the guy a chance, but I did not like him as a Coaching Candidate to begin with and feel that Kelly is like an “Oil-Snake Salesman” with that smirk on his face..
He made this QB situation a mess with his Decision and System, now let’s see if he can clean it up… 2013 Summer Camp should be been Foles and Dixon with Draft Pick Barkley… Foles and Barkely work primariily with Pat Shurmur working on the West Coast Scheme meanwhile Kelly would work some Read-Option Packages with Dennis Dixon for Red-Zone, Short yardage and just to mix things up and play every 3rd-4th Series..
This is what I evisioned when he was hired and I am saying wouldn’t this be an awesome way to attack a Defense, 2 Schemes run by 2 different skill sets at QB, how would a Defense Prepare for an Offense as Dyanmic as this… Instead, we get the same square peg thru a round hole with Kelly’s gameplans just like we saw under Coach AR & MM….
Some shit just never changes and I don’t even get upset by it any longer for the Eagles are sinking to new lows in the NFL and I have come to expect the underachievements and the fiasco’s that we see with a Front Office of Howie Roseman, Don Smolenski led by Owner Jeff Lurie… If I want to book a Wedding at the Linc, yes I would call these 3 Amigo’s.. If I want to build a Championshop Caliber Football Franchise,. these 3 Amigo’s are nowhere in the Conversation, or same Building. In fact, I would place Roseman at the Bottom of the Delaware River with Cement Cleats on if I wouldn’t get in trouble for doing so.. He just annoys the hell out of me anymore.. ..
I better take a walk before I get banned from GCobb.Com..
Paulman – how many wins does Chip and Howie need to accomplish off a 4-12 season?
They are 3-5 .375 winning percentage. The mark to beat is 4-12 a .250 winning percentage.
E0S….that is a pretty low threshold of expectations. All he needs to do is improve on lasts year record to be successful? I know that I expect a lot more out of this coach. I recognize that Kelly did not have a choice with much of this roster, but with as weak as this division is, there is no reason to believe that 7 or 8 wins is not to be expected.
With this Pathetic NFC East this Season and a prettty easy Opening first 3 Game Schedule..I expected them to compete and win 8-9 Games
Redskins opening night with RGIII seeing his first live action in 8 Months was a gimme for the Eagles, then Home Games versus the CHargers on a short week and then the CHiefs on even a shorter week..
F Chip Kelly, He has not even Won a Home Game yet.. He’s 0-4 at home versus the Chargers, Chiefs, Cowboys & Giants and has had his Team lay a F’n Egg in each one of the them… Yea, I am pissed and embarrased to be an Eagle Fan..
0-4 in home games is hard to defend.
I guess I’m more patient than others in waiting for Reid’s players to be transitioned off the the team.
Mike Vick and Howie Roseman remaining has poisoned chip kelly’s grace period. The venom against those two I think is clouding what is a complete rebuild.
You would have loved to hear Roseman spinning his web on WIP yesterday Pman. Some of the callers really went at him, and he assured everyone that if they were to walk into the NovaCare offices, that they would see that everyone on the staff is just as unhappy. He was trying to act like his pathetic past drafts have nothing to do with the position that we find this team in right now, and that we have a fantastic group of successful scouts. You would have loved hearing him Pman, you might be able to get a podcast of it at 94WIP if you look for it. I don’t know how the guy is able to keep his job, but I guess working for Jeffy doesn’t mean you have to actually do a good job, just tell him the right story with the appropriate amount od spin.
greenfan do they podcast 94WIP, or are they re- running that Roseman interview?
I just checked. They have podcasts for certain interviews, but the Roseman show is not listed.
thanks greenfan – I’ll recheck their site periodically, eventually they might offer it for download, I’m sure I’ll find it as amusing as you did.
The Read Option does work…if it is used properly!~ you cant run it on every running play. You need to be able to play some smashmouth football and knock people off of the ball. This enhances the read-option.Chip Kelly’s system is based on the running game…the throwing aspect means having the ability to force defenders to guard the whole field…so you can run the ball. Chip Kelly offense can work…but you need dominate offensive line play…and receivers that can beat press coverage…unfortunately for the Eagles…they dont have this…in the absence of this…there is tremendous pressure on the QB’s…and its obvious that Foles and Barkley cant handle that!
the only conclusive personal read option decision that has been learned is Mike Vick’s 5’11”, 33 year old body is not NFL caliber anymore let alone read option caliber.
Matt Barkley and Nick Foles have NFL snaps left in their frame, Mike Vick is done for 2013 and the Philadelphia Eagles entirely. Look real close at the body language from Mike Vick on the side lines sunday. He was crying. The tears were the realization that his NFL career has ended. Those tears were not for the hamstring, which didn’t even require any treatment during or after the game.
It was a shame to see him go out like that, and I forget who said it, but
that leaving a Sport that you have loved playing and excelled at since you were a kid thru your early adult life is very difficult thing to do..The human body waits for no one.. When it’s time to go, it’s time to go.. Vick will be grateful that he still has his faculities about him for a few more hits to the head could have irreprable and lifelong damage to his well-being… Get out when you can and still have your health, move on to the next Chpater of your life.. Be productive, wise and look back with Pride,dignity and repsect that you gave all you had to give, this is all you can wish and want for any athlete.. Every Atlehete wants to go out on his or her Terrms, but guess what, it rarely ever happens… Jim Brown, Barry Sanders,come to mind, but not many, that’s for sure..
It does not consitently win in the NFL
and Like VIck Can who has done exactly what since the 1st Half of the Reskins Game almost 2 Months ago..Are you even watching the Games KoolBreeze.. Vick Choked in the Clutch late versus the Chargers, Sucked in the Bronco Game, was so-so versus the Giants when he got injured,
sucked in his return game last week and is now out for anothe 2-3 Weeks so by the time he returns, the Eagles Season is basically over as it is now again by the 1st Weekend of November..(for the 3rd Year in a Row I may add which all had Mike VIck as Starting QB of the Eagles)
Maybe you should take your your Shades off
Vick’s Record is now 1-10 in his last 11 Games which is probably over a Calender Year Old since he misses every 3rd or 4th Game or..
Nice Guy, Nice Redemption Story on Mike VIck, but a lousy NFL QB, always was, and always will be… nothing has changed on that front..
Paulman…your Vick-hating shades gives you a one-dimension view of the game…so you dont see or understand the game. Stop hating. Vick played well against the Chargers who overwhelmed the defense, the Broncos with Manning tore the Eagles secondary up…Vick didn’t have a chance.
The Offensive Line has sucked and they are getting worse…the receivers suck with the lost of Maclin making them worst…No Qb in the NFL would have made this team over 1-10 in Vick’s last ten games…not Manning, not Brady…The Eagles this year are 3-5 and they really should be 4-4 because Foles choked the whole game against Dallas and average QB play would have won the game.
Stop drinking the Vick haterade. Right now Vick is hurt…if we dont get better O-line play that opens up the running game…Foles, Barkley will struggle badly…and even with that…the Eagles wont beat any good defense teams with Foles or Barkley…their receivers are not good enough..they have one decent receiver…D-Jax.
Mike Vick got hurt…so did Foles…and so will any other QB playing behind this weak, poor offensive line
Just shut the fuck up about Vick u moron he stinks at everything but running, fumbling, throwing picks, getting sacked, losing and getting injured.
Cowboys Offense with Romo put up 49 versus the Broncos
Redksins RGIII and Offense had a lead into the 3rd Quarter versus the Broncos… The Eagles were out of the game b4 halftime when Vick couldn’t step up and make plays versus the Broncos
The Eagles 3 Wins this year are over the Redskins (2-6) Giants (2-6) and TB Bucs (0-8) .. so that’s a combined 4-20 Record, woopty-doo…
Eagles could still be 4-4 if Vick was able to play a smart game versus the putrid GIants.. How does an Offense get shut-out against the worst Statistical Defense in the NFL.. Vick is done, be happy he has no head injuries or major limbs and that he can enjoy his next 40-50 Years with his Family & Kids .. I wish him well, but it’s time and actually past time to be honest with you.. After 2012 with Andy Reid was the proper time to close the MV& Chapter.. Sad thing is, that 10-20 Years ago, Most NFL Fans will only remember Vicks Years with the Falcons as his final 3-4 Years of Playing in the NFL were below ty average and full of underachievement’s and disappointment.. ‘It’s like who really remembers Farves final Season with the Jet/Vikings or Joe Montana’s with the Chiefs… Vick is and will always be a “Falcon”
Let him sign a 1 Day Contract and Retire as a Atlanta Falcon
success this year never was or should have been about wins and losses… it was about progress– anyone who is bitching at losing is a complete idiot. The defense is 10 times better than where it was last year.. thats progress- is it where it needs to be to compete for a championship..OF COURSE NOT)&^%^&%$%&**%=-nor should it be! it was abysmal last year and they have just had 8 nice quarters in a row.. but the offensive system and qb situation and the progress on the offensive side of the ball… no freaking way– now is it a ‘step backward before taking two forward’… i don’t know and neither do any of you
Neither can vick jackass. Just shut the fuck up already about Vick dude you sound like Charlie Gordon for fucks sake he blows and is a career loser. And 100000000% not the guy who has or will do anything to help us win the Super Bowl.
If McCoy needs Vick in the game to be effective then he better find a new job. Because IMO, Vick will not be playing very much for the remainder of this year and he will be gone next year.
Jesus I’m beat down with this team fellas. Total disappointment and disgrace top down. I’m just so defeated with this team from the faggot ass fight song, to the awful decision not to rebuild and throw this loser Vick out there again. Too not having one player on the team where u can go that dudes a beast and an eagle… Unfuckin real. Some of the worst football I’ve ever watched last 2 weeks and to top it off this loser cool aid man is undefeated and the talk of the nfl.
Tank for jameis Winston please
anyone check Marcus Vick’s twitter account the last couple of days?
He probably killed himself when he saw mike crying like a bitch
Neither Marcus or shayne has been heard from… Coincidence ?
You Vick haters need to beat it! The reality is the Vick won the job fair and square like it or not.! He was the best option and he got hurt because of a weak and ineffective offense line! Bottom line! Teams QB’s get hurt…St Louis wanted to bring back Brett Favre!!! Your not going to get Manning, Brady, Brees, or Rodgers in here…so your consistent whining, bitchin and moaning about Vick is delusional and spoils good quality football talk! Your talking out of your ass..so the next step is a bunch of personal insults that further proves your stupidity!
Its time for good, quality football analysis…not the persistent Vick hating whining that ignores every other aspect of the team.
The bottom line is the team will go with Vick until they get someone who can beat him out of the job….that guy is not on the team now…and I’m not convinced they will draft a guy that can do that…I’ll believe it when I see it…and whines and moans of Vick haters are meaningless drivel!
The offensive line pulled his hamstring? Interesting
Just keep telling yourself that koolbrreeze….
Vick has been ruled out for this week vs the Raiders. Foles will likely start… If Foles wins, or even plays well Vick will sit out the Packers game to give his re-injured ass time to heal.
By the time the Redskins game comes around the Eagles will either be out of the playoff picture because Foles lost games, or in the playoff picture because Foles won – Either way it will be time to look to the future….which doesn’t include Vick.
My guess is Vick knew as much when he was sitting with a towel over his head instead of being involved in the game and helping the kid.
IrishEagle…if you watch instead of the same old tired Vick bashing…you may come away with a small clue…here is a hint…in order for Foles to have any chance or hope of being successful…Shady McCoy is going to have to run the ball effectively. He is the key to this team. Teams will stack the box…jam the receivers…that means the offensive line has to man up and open some holes…if they dont…then Foles will stink…just like he did in Dallas..he cant carry a team and he cant make plays with his legs when other things go wrong.
August was an eternity ago KB I. term of Football and absolutely means nothing halfway they a Football Season..
Are u this Thick headed in your regular life.. C’Mon Man!!!
I for 1 have not enjoyed the crap the O has put out there the last 2 weeks. Un real to me that these 3 qb’s could not score 1 TD.
Vick- If you cant play- you dont play. He looked bad.
Foles- Who flipping knows?
Barkley- yikes.
“Barkley- yikes.”
That’s why they put Vick out there. That wasn’t solely his call. They knew what Barkley was and bargained a gimpy Vick was a better deal than a healthy Barkley.
And after watching Barkley play I see why they made the gamble. Yikes indeed.
I disagree. You don’t put an injured player, especially a QB with a hamstring that will limit his mobility, out on the field. I believe that they all thought he was ok. 3 weeks for a hamstring to recover is not unheard of, but of course it depends on the severity.
No doubt they WANTED him to be healthy to play, no doubt. Maybe that colored their decision making here, but overall I do not agree that they would knowingly put an injured Vick on the field.
” I believe that they all thought he was ok”
I beleive they thought he was “ok” too. Not great, not 100 but ok. And they banked “okay” would be enough. And I think all involved convinced themselves that his “ok” was better than it was.
“they thought….”
Just another in a growing list of things they’ve thought wrong.
I, and others, were stating (actually laughing and joking) a week ago how bad Vick was going to look if he couldn’t run around.
(in fact I said it would be 40% 2 ints and 8 sacks….and he was on track….if he had played the whole game it would have been!!!)
We KNEW he would stink the joint out, because he does not know how to play QB.
What was it? Interception, sack-fumble and ridiculous int’l grounding heave…..all in the first 4 plays? And people thought Foles performance was bad.
Foles was missing open WRs, but at least he didn’t look like a high school freshman being dropped into an NFL game.
That the Eagles’ coaching staff thought that a MV who could not run was the better option, then they are idiots.
Thank God the decision has been forced out of their hands and his own brittle body has mercifully ended the MV7wins era.
There was no Bart Scott, and it took too long into the season….but at least its finally happened
It was ok for Peyton Nanning to play Sunday with 2 bad ankles and he’s a guy that doesn’t move all that well to begin with
It was ok for the Redskins to play RGIII when he wasn’t fully healthy from a serious Knee Surgery
It was ok for Eusseell Wilson to play the complete game lady evening when he got sacked like .8 times and had the snot knocked out him
The difference in these 3 Examples is that all QB’s I just mentioned about are “Winners”, their Team needed them and they stepped up and have it their best efforts and you are going to make excuses about a 3 Week old Hamstring pull, my what Pussies the Eagłes Dans have become, you suck it up and pkay to Win
If a 85%Healthy Vick who is a 12 Year Vet can’t get thru 1 Game versus the hapless Giants, then he needs to hang them up!!!
End of Story about the F’n excuses already,
It’s a damn Hamstring.. A little pain, a little mobility and quicknee, big deal..
This is what I do know about the Philadelphia Eagles
This is the 3rd Year in a Row that by Halloween Weekend and the 1st Weekend of November that the Season’s realistic Playoffs Chances are over..
The only good thing is that this allows me to spend more time following College Football and Prepare for Upcoming Draft which I really enjoy doing and of course, allows me to enjoy the Fall Weekends before the Weather gets bad for the Winter…
This Season they are 3-5 and of course not mathematically eliminated but does anyone in their right mind believe the Eagles will go out and beat the Packers,Lions,Bears,Cowboys,Cardinals or even the Raiders with this Offense and HC in Chip Kelly.. I really don’t see them winning a game the rest of this Season outside the Vikings and will finish 4-12 and possibly beat a Redskins or Cardinals to finish at 5-11 .. It is what it is..
thats you Pman- always the flipper….. now you see no reason to watch.
Give it time guys… the D has gotten much much better. Thats good.
I am too stupid to do the math, so I will be watching and rooting as usual.
I agree Stevo, the defense has started to play much better, as more of a unit. They still lack some overall talent, but they are playing like they know where they should be and are making some stops. That being said, it was the Giants last week, who flat out suck, so maybe we need to see them against some better teams before we pronounce the defense as “good”.
I really want to see how Kelly handles this adversity. Especially with his offense, the one area on the team that has his fingerprints all over it. Will he just fold under the pressure of the NFL, or will Chip come out and provide ways to move the ball with various players and formations?
How can you turn from this team now Pman? We have been through some pretty demoralizing seasons over the past 5 or so years, you really think that this will be any worse than last season? I look for improvement, for players who are looking to make a play, make a difference, and for a coaching staff that needs to prove they can turn things around. Like Stevo said, we have seen a defense make adjustments and get better, let’s see what Kelly’s offense can do and hopefully they will put it all together and win some games in this pathetic division.
To be honest Stevo, I will watch since I enjoy seeing the Younger Players play to see how they perform, I will admt that I did not watch the GIant or Cowboy Games for I was out hiking here in the Blue Ridge Mtns of NC during Peak Leaf Season .. I followed on ESPN Mobile on the Play by Play page which games were so terrible that it wasn’t worth my time… I consider myself an Eagle Fan but damn if I am going to waste some beautful Sunday Afternoons during a beautiful but short Peak Fall Season watching this slop they have been putting out there… I see enough replays and streaming highlights to get the jist of how terrible they have been..
This Season has worked out pretty close to what I expected, so there is not real reason to watch a complete 3-3 1/2 Hours to only reinforce what I already know … I don’t like GM Roseman, or HC Chip Kelly as an NFL Coach, I don’t like the Read-Option as a Base Offense and I don’t like Mike Vick as QB..
Call me a non-fan, a hater, bandwagon on or off fan or whatever, it doesn’t bother me one bit for I know Football and follow the entire League.. but I will only watch complete games of Teams that Play good Fundamental Football, that are well Coached and prepared and Play games that are meaningful..
The Eagles will not play a meaningful game the remainder of this Season as far as the Post-Season goes though they will be important to the young PLayers and to the future success of the Eagles..
except that you thought Jackson, Vick, Celeck, and Cole would be gone.
oh wait… that was last year… i mean next year.
I was in your area a couple weeks ago Pman…I was in Canton & Silva on business. Stayed in Ashville. Beautiful area. I can understand wanting to get outside….you missed some pretty bad games.
It is a Beautiful Part of the COuntry and especially the Fall
Sylva is where my Daughter goes to COlleg (Western Carolina University) and we were just down this past Saturday for their Homecoming Weekend Festivities and met lots of her friends, other parents, tailgaited and we wll went to the GFootball Game.. What a blast and it was about 60 Degrees, light breeze and just Perfect out..
I live in Boone which is 2 Hours north of Ashville and Higher Elevations and about 8 Degrees Cooler on average Temp wise..
Not to get personal, but do you work in the “Paper Business”
I know there is Blue Ridge Pater in Canton and Jackson County Paper in Sylva… .
Good detective work Pman. Been in the P&P industry since ’88.
I know Western Carolina a little too. I had a nephew graduate from there about 5 years ago. He loved the place.
I work in Transportation Industry since 1986 and have done Business with both those Companies and to be honest, there’s not much Industry in Western NC outside of Paper Mills and Furrniture and off course Moonshine, along with Tourism,Resorts, 2nd Homers/Retirement & Medical Facilities but that’s a different story for another day…. How about PH Glatfelter there in Pisgah Forest and a place up in Spring Grove,Pa…
Marcus Vick found filling out an “Unemployment Application” in Norfolk,Va at the Country’s Unemployment Office.. Marcus will no longer be able to sponge off of his older Brother Mike… Stay Tuned for Details…
Also, “Welcome Wagon, runs over Newcomer” .. Details at 11am
Lots of people on here (mostly the Vickites).
“CLearly Barkley is not ready!!!”
And whose fault is that??
Today (in regards to that ridiculous goalline call with Barkley) we see Kelly saying that the play was one that the Eagles have practiced over and over and Barkley saying he had never once run it in practice.
Good times.
So again…because of the stupid decision to keep Vick around, we have one young QB coming off a concussion, who is backedup up by another young QB who hasn’t been getting any reps because he was 3rd string and hasn’t even run through all the plays in the playbook yet.
We have a young QB thrown to the wolves who hadn’t even run through all the plays in the playbook ONCE! Are we surprised he didn’t look that great???
Fantastic. And we wonder why Barkley threw some picks.
This would have been ohhhhh so easy. Cut fucking bait with the old man….Let Foles and Barkley split reps all camp.
Roll into the season with Foles as starter and Barlkey getting full back-up reps…..by week 8 or 9 have a good/better read on Foles than we do now…and if he still sucks after the full year of starts, then move to a Barkley who has actually had the opportunity to PRACTICE for half the year.
Instead it was “WIN NOW” with a shitty old man (and a D that wasn’t ready) and when the pathetic RO offense landed 2 guys on the injured list, in comes a kid who hasn’t even been practicing the plays.
And people say he “isn’t ready”.
Maybe Barkley isn’t ready because (with new NFL practice rules) He hasn’t thrown a pass in practice in 2 fucking months.
This shit really pisses me off.
Now we have to give Foles to the end of the year….lets hope he does well and answers some questions….because if he doesn’t….well round and round we’ll end the year not knowing about Barkley either!!
Stupid.
No long term vision.
Maddening.
WIN NOW!
BTW – also not happy with Barkley for brining it up. He’s been hanging around the Eagles’ cancer types too much. Throwing the coach under the Bus is shitty too.
Nice job Barkley.
The only guy on this team can do an interview is Foles.
With him its: “I, I, I” when talking about things that went wrong and “We. we. we” when talking about things that went right.
I don’t know if he’ll ever be a good QB, but he knows what he’s doing at the podium.
Vinnie,
Good job. I think you have summed up the problems with the Eagles pretty well.
Paulman, your posts here on.this topic are epic, anyone who at least can’t respectfully disagree with your content while acknowledging and respecting your passion, fandom are not worthy, great paulman, you are the man
eunuch
And paulman, I am sorry I made derogatory references to your Italian descent, I have since been to sensitivity training like Cooper and rehab, I quit though, so all bets are off
over correcting, snap out of it Jakedog – you have no bite today! next you’ll be passing out rainbow condoms at a circle jerk listening to elton john ballets.
opps ballads
When Kelly came in he carefully studied the QB situation…he looked at what was in the draft, he looked at what he had on the team. He held an open competition…Foles, Vick, and Barkley. The best QB won the job-Vick! Has the year went on we suffered the first big lost was Maclin…a terrible blow to the receiving core. Then has the year has gone along…we have seen the offensive line play get worst and worst…culminating in the Giants game where Vick was forced to run repeatedly in order for the Eagles to move the offense…the O-line and Shady shut down…Vick lead the Eagles to a lead over the Giants and then pulled a hamstring while repeatedly running for his life.
Its simple people…the defense is improved…hopefully they continue to improve and force some turnovers for some easy scores..also hopefully the offensive line will play to their capabilities…if not…we continue to see an inept offensive and Foles weak arm and limitations will continue to be exposed