Eagles offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur talked to the media after practice yesterday and he made some comments regarding the battle for the starting quarterback position. He said something which I have been saying all along. The struggle between the Birds quarterbacks is all about using the competition to get improved quarterback play.
“No, I think competition is good for everyone”, Shurmur said. “I think we all need to be challenged regardless of whether it’s within a position group. I think we all feel challenged to learn and not make mistakes. I think that’s natural and good, and I think that’s what training camp is — you have groups of guys out there doing the same things, and they try to get better individually and then they naturally compare themselves to their teammates. And so I think that’s a good thing.”
Shurmur didn’t say it, but I believe this idea was all about getting Michael Vick in particular to play his best, through making good decisions and taking care of the football. Vick’s skill set fits this offense. His quickness and speed along with his strong arm make him an ideal candidate to run Chip Kelly’s offense, but he must eliminate the turnovers and bad decisions which have plagued him the last couple of years.
He played as well as he has ever played in the first two preseason games, so Chip Kelly and Shurmur are getting what they want.
The pressure of the competition forces Vick not to take foolish chances when he throws the football. It also forces him to protect the football when he runs. The former first round pick will tend to be more conservative when the starting job of is on the line. Vick knows how Kelly feels about turning the ball over, so he avoids it at all costs. He hasn’t played that way the last two years when he was anointed the starter and in a comfortable position.
The competition has also put the pressure on Nick Foles which has improved his play. You play the games under pressure, so pressure in practice from competition is a good thing.
I think Kelly is going to wait as long as possible to name the starter in order to make sure to keep his quarterbacks as sharp as he can through competition.
If Vick had the conscious ability to be more careful with the ball he would have done it long ago, regardless of the circumstances.
In the heat of battle instincts take over and we do what we are programed to do. In Vick’s case – when a play breaks down, and things don’t go as they were designed…. Vick’s instinct is to go “Schoolyard”. That’s when he has turnovers, or gets injured.
In 11 years no one has been able to re-program Vick. If you can tell from watching five offensive series in pre-season that Vick is not going to revert to his schoolyard ways, then you are a great evaluator. I’m more inclined to think that Vick will be Vick when he sees complicated defenses in the regular season.
and he is still the best QB on the team.
right?
and he is still the best QB on the team.
right?
I would say that overall Vick is slightly better than Nick Foles at this point in their careers. But – and it’s a big but – Nick Foles has the potential to improve as the team improves….. Or, Nick Foles might show that he cannot improve. In which case you draft a QB next year.
Vick is on the down side of his career. When the Eagles are good enough (offensively and defensively) to contend for a deep playoff run, Vick will be history.
No matter how you slice it, Vick has the body of a 33 year-old running back. He is not your typical QB. Michael Vick has about 800 rushing attempts in his career. The only players from his draft (2001) who have that many attempts are RBs – and not one of them is still active.
If this team was heading to the playoffs this year I could understand starting Vick, but since that is not likely to happen, a young guy should be starting.
If Kelly starts Mike Vick it will be because he thinks they can win. I can guarantee you when it becomes clear to Chip Kelly that the Eagles will not make the playoffs, Vick will be replaced.
I don’t hate Vick – I hate that he is old, brittle, and set in his ways.
OK since Vick is slightly better and teams usually start the better QB, there’s nothing more to discuss here.
Potential means nothing in the pros.
Potential means nothing in the pros.
Tell that to Brett Favre who was let go when he was slightly better than Arron Rogers at the time… tell it to Joe Montana who was slightly better than Steve Young at the time he was traded…
And those are Hall of Famers who got replaced by younger QBs that were still not as good. With Vick is more comparable to Matt Hasselbeck being replaced by an inferior Tarvaris Jackson because he was younger.
It’s what happens when teams rebuild. You don’t rebuild with a 33 year-old QB. It didn’t work for the Redskins with McNabb and it wont work here.
But all you hero worshipers can get one final dose Michael Vick…. enjoy yourself! It won’t last very long… before you know it you’ll be back rooting for the Redskins.
Really?
Foles is light years ahead of where Vick was at this same stage in their careers. But the Falcons still went with Vick 2nd year. A mistake I suppose.
Indy dumped Manning to draft potential. Potential means nothing?
Pats stuck with Brady with a guy who had the team in the SB 2 years earlier on the bench. Potential means nothing?
SF went with unproven Kap with a guy who had the team in the NFC champ game the year before. Potential means nothing?
Dallas stuck with Aikman despite going 0-11 with 9 tds and 18ints. Potential mean nothing? In fact they stuck with him again the following year when he threw 11 tds and 18 more ints. Potential means nothing?
Again, Foles is light years ahead of where Vick was entering their second seasons……but you’d abandon that potential for a fading nobody.
Good thing you don’t run a franchise….
vinnie?
Colts drafted Luck as the 1st pick in the draft.
That’s not drafting for potential.
The first player in te draft is top talent.
Potential means”DIDDLY POO SQUAT” in the NFL. It’s what you do now that counts. Ya’ll the same ones that also said Kolb had potential over McNabb and you see where that went. A recent new rookie is blowin Kolb to the bench and possibly cut. And no Vaginnie, foles aint light years ahead of where Vick was when he was at that stage of his career.
Never. Ever. Once said Kolb had “potential” over McNabb.
I said McNabb, who had been a very very good (not great) QB was done. His legs were gone and his accuracy was dropping rapidly. He was done and it was time to move on. (And he was)
I said Kolb would be a better choice than Vick for 2010 because I thought potential was better then Vickiocraty. Vick had his little 5 game run and people thought I was wrong (I was not)
After 2010 I said Kolb was a better choice forward than Vick for 2 reasons:
1 – because those 5 games early in 2010 were a mirage (they were)
2 -because they could have traded Vick for 2 first round picks after 2010.
They traded Kolb instead.
You guys scream about how terrible Kolb is ……..Since the trade Vick and Kolb look like this bucko:
10 wins 13 losses (43%) 457 of 774 (59%) for 5665 yrds 30tds 24 ints
6 wins 8 losses (43%) 255 of 436 (58%) for 3214 yrds 17 tds and 11 ints
Gee….I’m REALLY glad we had one of those guys over the other…(you can hardly tell which is which…..
In Vicks first year: 44% comp % 2tds 3
Foles is light years ahead of where Vick was you clown.
But they went with Vick because of his potential you clown.
If potential meant “DIDDLY POO SQUAT” as you so eloquently put it, we wouldn’t be having this conversation because Vick would have played the majority of his career in Hamilton.
The comparisons are ridiculous and meaningless. Vick’s numbers in the past under a totally difference offense while comparing it to Foles under this offense is simply dumb. The bottom line is that everyone with eyes can see who the best QB on the Eagles is NOW- Mike Vick!
Vick is light years ahead of Foles now and he has proven it to the coaches, the media, the fans, and more importantly…his teammates who are rallying around the veteran QB. Vick is the one the players believe in and are ready to go the war with.
They all see the difference between a QB constantly dumping off (Foles) and one who is throwing the ball accurately down the field-Vick.
Face the facts…Vick is better than Foles! He has proven it in a fair competition
Potential means”DIDDLY POO SQUAT” in the NFL. It’s what you do now that counts.
Spoken like a unenlightened fool….
Oh look, now vinnie is bringing up that Foles is lightyears ahead where Vick was at their respective points in their careers. Lmao. You are the biggest troll on this site, get a life moron.
I remember Vinnie talking about Kolbs potential in this manner. Lmao.
Since the trade……One is Vick, one is Kolb:
10 wins 13 losses (43%) 457 of 774 (59%) for 5665 yrds 30tds 24 ints
6 wins 8 losses (43%) 255 of 436 (58%) for 3214 yrds 17 tds and 11 ints
If Kolb is shit (and at this point its obvious he is), then were does that leave the other guy??”
lmfao and people are throwing around playoffs because of vick and talking about vick being a superstar again (as if he ever really was one…) and all dude does is keep stinking it up
if Vick keeps stinking it up, yet no QB on the team can unseat him….
then what does that say about the other qb’s?
They are rookies and a 2nd year starter….that’s what it says. You elevate a 12 year guy to such heights when he hasn’t accomplished shit. Again go to the redskins like you said, cause you aren’t a real Eagles fan. As soon as Vicks time runs out you will find another QB to suit your agenda. The rest of us have to suffer through a season that we know how it’s gonna end. Same Speech as 2010, same promise of 2010 same results as 2010…defenses will figure it it out 8 games in and everything will Blow up. Chip will turn to Foles or Barkley, You will post The Eagles suck it’s not Vicks fault Im rooting for the SKINS I hope Vick comes back and kills the Eagle….Yeah I remember the shit you posted….Go to the skins now cause we are gonna suffer either way
POST IT MF
I’m pretty sure if you go back and check previous posts we’ve all been wrong. I know I said there was no way Vick would be the starter, but if you go by his play it’s hard to imagine him not being the guy. I really believe that Chip is smart enough and they have enough talent to put him in a position to be sucessful. I mean all you can go by is his play and it’s been pretty much lights out. I really believe that watching the first to preseason games that Chip really knows what he’s doing. I mean just look what he’s installed already in these games, and there’s no offsides, holding, wasting timeouts, thats a well coached team. I think Chips the real deal and has a plan and I for one am on board. If Foles is as good as we think he is or can be he’ll get his chance to prove it. Chip does’nt strike me as a guy who can’t tell if a guy can play or not. I have questions about Vick but were gonna have those answers by week two or three, so I’m gonna hope for the best. Lets go E A G L E S…
I agree clue…Chip is showing everyone how pathetic Reid was.
totally disciplined on the offensive side of the ball.
no jumping offsides or habitual holding penalties. No wasted time outs or quick 3 and outs.
This is what we’ve been waiting for a long time to see.
Now we can see Vick take the next step.
Vick is the main beneficiary of Andy Reid’s absence. Everyone should stroll down and read “skayne” excellent analysis on some of the differences between Reid and Kelly. Its going to be very difficult for defenses to defend Vick, Shady and DJax..and our offensive line is going to be dominant…if the Eagles have merely an average defense…they are going to the playoffs this year! So we are not playing for the future or waiting for a better QB…we got a QB and a good one…Mike Vick in THIS OFFENSE!
Smart guy you are cluelesseagles fan (no pun intended…If only Vaginnie, Jackoffdog, and the drunk Irishman could see this also!
Team Vick opens new Astro turf field with renovatios in rough North Philly neighborhood thanks to his 200,000 dollar donation. Vick not only has talked the talk he has walked the walk with his second chance.
Big Up to Mike Vick for donating that 200K football field!!! People don’t like to recognize and acknowledge the good he has done since he has gotten here. Some just want to focus on the past. True Haters!!!
G. Cobb, Can you post an article on your site about him donating this field?
Agreed great thing to give back to the community. Doesn’t change how I feel about him as a QB. I can separate the two.
Kudos to Mike Vick for raising $200g and donating it for the new field. The kids in that neighbourhood will benefit.
There’s a very simple reason why the Eagles have looked so much crisper under Chip Kelly(no penalties, burnt TOs, etc.). People just don’t understand that the WCO is the most complicated of the systems run in the NFL. The main reason for that is the terminology. You’re talking up to 15 words in a SINGLE play call.
Just imagine what trying to say 10 or 15 words when the crowd is screaming. It’s easy to imagine being unable to hear every word, stumbling over a word and having to start over- the possible mistakes are too numerous. That’s why you would see wasted timeouts or the Eagles rushing to the line of scrimmage with only seconds left on the play-clock throughout Reid’s tenure.
The other thing wrong with how Andy Reid runs the offense is it’s stuck in a time warp. Bill Walsh created the WCO to attack the way defenses were playing at that time; The zone-blitz wasn’t heavily used and teams played much more base D, Nickel and Dime personnel was used mainly on third down. Now with the proliferation of various zone-blitzes(fire zones, overload blitzes, and the JJ special, 2 or more guys in same gap), defenses using sub-packages a majority of the time, the advantage of spreading the field to throw only is far less effective.
People keep thinking there are complicated blitzes just waiting once the season starts, but you’ve been watching too much Andy ball. Zone-blitzes are useless against a team who plans to run the ball when given the opportunity, and all those tactics aren’t sound because they don’t account for all the gaps you have to account for when defending the run. Chip Kelly’s goal on offense is to put defenders in constant conflict, because the fundamentals for defending run is different for pass. You want to stay balanced for the express purpose of making the defense stay at home in order to honor run. That way you get the situation where throwing is advantageous- the other teams base is on the field, meaning less cover guys and less pass rush specialists.
Andy Reid still doesn’t understand this. Look at the 49ers-Chiefs pre-season game. They blitzed Alex Smith into oblivion. Corners coming off their man to run free at the QB, defenders directly at the line of scrimmage coming unblocked after the QB. The problems in Philly for 10 years has been the offensive structure and play-calling. Too many of the WC guys 2 or 3 generations removed from Bill Walsh haven’t adapted to today’s game.
Bill Walsh, in the book he wrote after he was done coaching, touched on a lot of these things. He bemoaned the state of the running game in the NFL. He said it was too boring and not very creative. He talked about teams in the future moving away from the complicated play-calls so they could operate faster and more efficient. Why say 10 words when you could say one or 2? He even talked about running the single wing in the NFL, because he knew teams used to today’s offensive attacks would be hard pressed to defend it. The cycle had come around where all the things that make a successful running game- power, misdirection, ball-faking- would work once again.
Excellent, well thought out analysis of the Eagles true problems…while everyone wants to focus on Vick, the QB…you bring home the point that Chip Kelly is going to run the ball and put Vick in good throwing situations without the ineptitude of Andy Reid. The game has passed him by…he is a failed coach who will be just as bad in KC as he was in his last years here.
@Skayne…great points regarding specific reasons for some of Reid’s offensive failures over and over again. I have hear Gruden and Steve Young discuss the WCO terminology, and you are right, very wordy and complex. I also heard Gruden discussing what the league can expect out of Kelly, and he talks about single word plays and 15 seconds between plays. Thanks for your comments, I think you are right. Reid is stuck in the ’80’s and the defenses have caught on to his tendencies.
No doubt Vick cool dude, warrior like bhop,Jakedog, and now philanthropist, but he’s not a good nfl quarterback
I predict Mike Vick becomes “Mayor of Philadelphia’ in 2018
well that has about as good as chance as all your other predictions….
Well at least you can say, that I was consistent…. Ha Ha …